Do you now live a thousand times better than during Soviet times?

[peacetraveler22]

If time travel ever becomes possible, I would transport myself back to Moscow or the province in the 1970's or 80's to better understand the realities of life in Soviet times. Looking at old photos in books or online, I can hardly envision such a system of life where everything is so structured and predestined. This is the eternal debate amongst my older Russian friends and readers - the pros and cons of life in the USSR vs. modern day Russia. Tonight I read an article written by a man who was only nine years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. However, he claims this was long enough to form a strong enough opinion about life in the USSR to know that he never wishes to return. His observations seem a bit shallow and naive on the surface. He takes a few of the most commonly expressed strengths of the Soviet system, and explains why they are misconceptions. Please remember these are not my personal views, but the opinions of a former resident in the Soviet Union. Let's begin with education...

Myth 1: The Soviet education was the best in the world



There's a common belief that education in the Soviet system was good, perhaps even the best in the world.  However, this was largely a result of propaganda, and it's important to ask the primary question of how a "great" education should be measured?  It's clear that scientific progress in the West was no less than in the USSR.  Moreover, if everyone was so smart in the USSR, why couldn't they make good cars and VCRs? Something is wrong here, and doesn't add up.

Myth 2: Soviet medicine was better

Obviously, the quality of medical care was worse in Soviet times.  It has always been worse when compared to decaying capitalist countries. Life expectancy in the USSR was lower than the "enemy" at all times.

Reasons for lower life expectancy are simple - lack of modern medicines and treatments. While every effort was being made to create the next warheads, citizens died without having access to advanced diagnostics or care.

Myth 3: Free housing

A common misconception about the USSR is that everyone lived for free. In fact, there was no free housing but cooperatives, which cost an average sum, payable through reasonable installments for 25 years. Everyone in the USSR had a roof over their head, but the quality of housing was horrible and inferior in quality. After the collapse of the USSR, the owners of these apartments were faced with the need to privatize for big money, otherwise the housing became the property of the city. What, in general, makes housing better during Soviet times? Nothing.



Myth 4: In the Soviet Union, there was no unemployment or homeless

The main problem here was the equalization of labor in low wages, where many people lived paycheck to paycheck, creating a low standard of living for the majority. It's better to provide economic incentives for high quality work, rather than simply handing people wages. The latter creates lazy and entitled workers. Side note from me: I dont' understand employment during Soviet times? How were people hired? They picked their own jobs, or the choice was made by the government?

Myth 5: The most powerful army in the world!

Classic point of discussion for lovers of the USSR! Yes, the Union had a strong army, to the "defense industry" money was never spared. The Soviet forces were greatly feared abroad, but there are two important points. (1) A strong army has no effect on the lives of ordinary people, except in the negative direction (when all power goes to the creation of tanks, there remains no funds for infrastructure and other improvements); and (2) the Armies of Western countries were no less strong.

Myth 6: Products and clothes were better in the USSR


This is complete nonsense according to the author. In Soviet times, everything was worse with clothing and consumer choice. People wore shoes for ten years, and it was the same with all other clothes which were of poor quality. Remember how everyone was so desperate for Levis and other American jeans?

In his opinion, the absolute worst part of life in the USSR was the lack of choice in everything - education, work, food, clothing. Soviet citizens couldn't leave the country or really choose the accommodations which best fit their own personality, goals or comfort.  Individuality was suffocated. The government planned human life from birth to death. In general, it completely ruined the country and strangled motivation.

The author's final words - "God forbid that we all go back. Now we live a thousand times better." Do you agree?

P.S. - is the term "совок" offensive and derogatory, or it's okay to use?

Comments

[morreth.livejournal.com]

There was only one factory producing the chewing gum in USSR, Kalev in Latvia. And it was working on American machinery and by Wrigley's technology.

But I must say that Polish and Turkey chewing gums were much more valued - they contained tiny leaflets with little strips about Disney characters!

[zhang-fei.livejournal.com]

That's kind of outrageous. Why would you give foreigners grants if that money could have been spent on your own citizens? Some fat Belgian fruit deserves that scholarship less than a guy from Alabama.

[inescher.livejournal.com]

My Mom was a great cooker so we ate good and delicious dishes. Also, don't forget, I lived in Ukraine, in big city... All this reflected to our menu (as our Jewish culture background too).
We ate whatever my could "dostat'" (find out in the grocery store) or buy in farmer market (my mom usually came to the market at 5:30-6:00 am, to find out cheap and fresh staff).
I still know how to use the whole chicken prepare dinner for 3 people for 5 days. :) If you are interesting to know about the dishes we or our friends, or relatives... used-please let me know. Also, don't forget, to eat during the winter time we canned a lot. Really a lot! Sometimes my mom and me canned 200-300 cans with vegetables and fruits. Every time when I do canning now I feel relaxed because I have to do it for fun not because I have to think how to feed my family during long time period.

[morreth.livejournal.com]

It varied from place to place. I can tell about Soviet Ukraine, are you interested?

[zorra-africa.livejournal.com]

Noooooooo!
The kids came from the cabbage, don't you know?
And the kids now are mutants. The cabbage gene was dissolved because of smartphones. And that's why sex became obligatory to make a child. And all the storks died because of the damned capitalism.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Yes, tell. I'm interested. :)

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

From cabbage! Haha! :))) Thanks for the laugh.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Yes, I am interested in the dishes. Maybe I'll try to make a traditional Soviet meal one night. :)

[baby-rhino.livejournal.com]

I think it was engineer :)
But those who worked for the communist party lived better than anyone else I guess. At least my grandma did.

[inescher.livejournal.com]

You can't. We have different groceries here. Even meat and meat cuts are different. :)
Anyway, very good, rich and healthy dinner( actually lunch, because people there still eat soup + main course + desert on lunch, and only main course + desert on dinner) in USSR was fried potatoes or, for example, buckwheat with kotleta (special dish from ground meat, pan fried. Usually mixed pork and/or beef cheap meat and fat, onion, garlic, and milk or water-soaked bread, fried in brad crumbs) and vegetables. The last one is optional and seasonal. During the summer time it would be fresh veggie, such as tomatoes + cucumbers + onion with sunflower oil; during other 9 month it might be sour or marinated vegetables. After that-tea with homemade jam or homemade sweets.
Again, it very, very good dinner. Not the holiday, but...
Sometimes it was just the fried potatoes with omelet. Sometimes, just mixed pasta with buckwheat and fried onion. But sometimes we just ate borsch or any kind of soup second time. :)

[iamschik.livejournal.com]

Do you think, we all came from test tubes?:) In fact, sex was the only free fun available to soviet citizens.

[inescher.livejournal.com]

It also depends what part of Ukraine you lived. :) But not only Ukraine. I remember what our relatives who lived in Russia use to eat. Also remember how they asked as to send them the sunflower oil, salo, and sunflower seeds. O, rye bread we also brought to them. :))))

[demonfrost.livejournal.com]

There was choice too:
If you had money, you could buy a "cooperative" flat in any moment.
If you didn't have money, but you were a valuable worker, you could wait only for some years (and got a flat for free) like my father.

Only if you were some low quality worker and didn't want to progress or move, you could wait for 20+ years.

But there were a lot of exceptions too. In Moscow, full-time janitors (street cleaners) were rewarded by a flat (if they had none to live in) almost immediatedly. They had respect and social significance for local authorities.


Then, unlike USA, Soviet (and Russian) families often live as a "cluster family", i.e. together or very near with parents and grandmothers-grandfathers. It means that almost every "cluster family" has several flats (or houses) at their disposal.

In most cases, a typical full "cluster" family with 2 grandmothers and 2 grandfathers can control 5 flats (one per every grandparent and one for their married children if some of them had alreade got it from his/her factory). Grandparents usually live together in the same flat (any one of theirs), so the second their one is empty. You could also exchange those flats, as I've already said, including possibilities to get 2 flats of one room each in exchange of a 2-rooms flat, or get 1-room flat and 2-room flat in exchange of one 3-rooms flat, etc.

Plenty of options!

[iamschik.livejournal.com]

Shannon, it's not free, the comment is delusional. For example, the only freedom old retired people have - is to either live half-hungry, or to die of diseases they can't afford to take care about. The same for kids without parents: they are free to die in horrible filth in Russia, but they are not free to get adopted by loving Americans, and get help for congenital diseases, or those they got from abuse in state shelters.

[moebiuscat.livejournal.com]

I'm not a military expert, but as far as I know the army was always very bad. Losses to Germans in 2nd world war were about 7 to 1 - and Russians had more tanks and people and were defending. Conscription army is badly trained, officers and generals are mostly incompetent. All this hasn't changed. Navy consists barely functioning obsolete ships that burn in docs. Nobody knows but most ICBM are probably non-functional. Equipment deteriorated in the end of 80-s and 90-s but now there were a lot of money spent on rearming. Still, I think that now the army is much worse, because the technology is still a few generations bad and there is no way they can close the gap any time soon, because science and technology is just not there. In any modern conflict with NATO power Russia would lose catastrophically: Their planes won't see F22-s and F-35s (and others) at all or see them too late, while NATO planes would launch missiles from invisibility and in any sector no need to acquire lock by aiming the plane, modern Israeli and US missiles can lock and fire even backwards). Russian advantage in close dogfights is irrelevant because of this. The air superiority would be total, and that wins wars. Most other equipment is inferior to NATO and less reliable. Special forces are good, but normal conscripts are not comparable to professional armies. I think in any non-nuclear conflict with a modern western nation Russian army would fail catastrophically. Even the best special forces could not make good progress in Ukraine against Ukrainian army that was in much worse state than Russian.

So, some say, Putin wants to fight ISIS in Syria, but I don't believe it's possible with this kind of dysfunctional army. It would be a good thing actually if he could...

[seadevil001.livejournal.com]

Does not really matter. It is stupid text from stupid person. As they say in Russia - КГ/АМ.
1. Education in USSR was different from US. It quite close to German, AFAIK. And it was uniform across the country and give scholars - SYSTEM of facts and views were everything was tied to everything. Most of people did not realize it then and even now, but this system has incredible power. Indeed some schools were not good, but all in all majority was at least OK.
2. Again, medicine was different. In USSR, as well as in modern day Europe, emphasis is on prophylaxis and prevention. While in US it is on treatment. As a result, in US we have experts in successful treatment of late stage cancers and coronary surgery. Majority of people in Europe don't need this, they get treated earlier and cheaper (much cheaper). Same for USSR in good days.
3. Cooperatives accounted up to 8% of all dwellings in USSR. Rest of people has either individual houses or apartments. Later were free. In theory they remain state property, in practice I never heard that somebody got evicted from it. There were enterprize or departmental flats which were perks for some high managerial positions. Those were supposed to be freed upon termination. Author just don't know country he left.
4. Unemployment was non existent unless by choice (and in USSR not to work was felony - I am not kidding). Any plant or office I know was short on people. Moving from one position to another was easy. It was not looked upon favorably if you switched too many positions, but it would not impair your salary or benefits. Hiring was easy for workers - just stop by at any plant HR and ask for job. For white collars it was bit more complicated, informal recommendations may be necessary for good positions. And proper ancestry, as Mr. Ghandi explained (Jews first!). Government only required people who get education beyond school to work for 3 years somewhere were routine channels cannot bring specialists.
Homeless people existed. Not as many as after USSR collapse. Mostly there were former convicts falling through system cracks. Mostly they were harmless and were sometimes preyed upon by some scoundrels.
5. I would think that in direct confrontation ~ 1980, Soviet Army would beat NATO to shreds. But it would be totally pointless. Since Europe will be radioactive ruin, half of USSR same as well as 2/3 of US and both US and USSR would not be brought to knees. But there would not be any power to fight offensively for quite of time. That what was precipitated perestroika eventually.
6. It depends. In general food was better because it was scientifically designed for nourishment of people, not for quick sale. Indeed some gesheftmathers adulterated it for illegal profits. Indeed quite a few salespersons in shop try to give you little less for money. Though it was more or less in check. Clothes were very different in quality. Shoes were sore point, both directly and figuratively. Shoes for work were really good. For life, often not so.

What is clear now, is how much Russia spent on supporting all that satellite states and respublics of USSR. Even with corruption and capitalism, now people in Russia has much more than before. 1000X? No, may be 2-5X. What new generations will get is open question though.

[koluchkka.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure, but i think no. And anyway all American, european or at least Baltic things were the best, it was not possible to buy them, only to 'get'. There was no word 'buy' about any good things, only 'get' - through aquantance, relatives, etc

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[moebiuscat.livejournal.com]

That's very nice that you know of Protocol of Sèvres. Did you actually read it or at least the Wikipedia about it? I don't think you did, because it clearly states WHY Israel wanted territories in Sinai: to prevent blocking of Straits of Eilat and get rid of Egyptian army bases close to its borders. History shows that even after Israel was attached and won the was with the whole of Sinai - the moment Egypt was ready for peace Israel gave the whole Sinai away, just for a peace agreement, that is still working. So that clearly shows that any military ambitions are only about security, not about dominance or conquest.

If Arabs put down their weapons - there will be no more war. If Israel puts down its weapons - there will be no more Israel. Sad, but true.

What's typical is your readiness to baselessly accuse and offend a stranger. And you are telling me that you are cured of a "sovok" condition that you accuse me of? That's actually funny :-) One of the typical traits of soviet times is rudeness and a lack of respect. Unfortunately I see that it is still the case.

[qi-tronic.livejournal.com]

I don't know about tampons and such stuff (however I saw self-made hygienic pads accidentally).

But work opportunities for women were pretty good.
My mother worked as a scientist in Applied Math and earned just a little less than my father (who also worked as a scientist, in Physics).
They both were graduated from Moscow State University, the #1 university in Russia.
But they never were rich.
Ordinary workers at strong machine-building plants very often earned more than them.

[scrawnypaws.livejournal.com]

Not at all, we (me in a lesser degree, than you) can't really imagine, for example, the sheer despair of those, who lived in the 30s, 40s, even 50s for example - those, still remembering the normal life. The utter despair of those, whose life became those proverbial chips.

Nobody wants to think about it - it's imposiible for a human being to admit that his kin were mass murderes, sadists on an unprecedented scale -- and that all that horror was ultimatly for nothing. The psyche won't allow it and so they seek solace in myths.

As for the positive/negative, we'd need some basic criteria first, don't you think?

There's a young and already recognized resercher of the Soviet penitentiary system, LJ blogger Corporatelie. He operates in dry stats, no politics there - just numbers, documents scans. It's all in Russian, but I'm sure you could find a way - if you're curious. E.g. he compares the inmates death rates with those of the Nazi camps - just plain figures. Nazis are in many instances way behind.

Who'd want to talk about this? And his reserach is only about the camps system. But there were special decree speed-trial committies, para-mil justice courts, temp detention facilities. Even civic admins at some point were given the power of the death sentence. No scans for those ones. And all they do was kill, kill, kill.

Countless men, women and children (e.g. the infamous case of a kid shot for a stolen loaf of bread - it's on the Net, his prison pic and all) became dust.

What for? So that the workers* could have a free herring and 2 pounds of buckwheat on May Day? In the 70s? How would you rate that? Was that a positive thing, considering the price the millions paid? There's math to it, you know? Like some 600 folks executed daily during the mid 30s. Just think about it. That's a lot of bodies to dispose of. Picture that - a street in a small Dust Belt town rounded up and shot. The next day another batch. And so on, for years. Hey, but dont get sad, your kid, if you get to live to have one, would receive a free soap bar on Christmas some 30 years later.

Ain't that nice? Positive?

My gramp, the sweet and nice beloved granpa, was the Deputy Chief (economics) of the Control Commission. His job was to strip Germany of everything of serious value - whole factories, raw material, you name it. OK, that was the war, vae victis, the Krauts had it coming. But he also was the Secretary of Obkom (Regional Partiy Commission) in the late 30s, early 40s. I'm sufficiently removed from him to contemplate such unsavory fact, that NOT A SINGLE death sentence passed by NKVD was put into effect without Obkom endorsement. That was the law.

When he was 18, he figured out (he WAS smart) which side would win. He spent about 2 years in Siberia with the Red Guards. I nagged him all my childhood, "Gramp, pretty pleas, tell me some awesome stories your glorious deeds there!" Not a single word. We know now what the Red Guards did there, in abundant gruesome detail. He was an active part of it, everybody was.

Now, my mother loved him dearly, he was literally the light of her life - and for many good reasons, too. She's gone. But if she were alive, would she want to delve into all this? What do you think? The highest praise she gave him, "He was a good man. He never informed on anyone." That was all she was capable of.

Nobody in the former SU wants to even think about it all, because such thoughts would completely negate the very meaning of their lives. That their closest kin gleefully unleashed the usnpeakable evil, delighted in it and, to a degree, still do. And that it was all for nothing.

Thanks.

[genka8.livejournal.com]

My parents done OK all things considered.

[morreth.livejournal.com]

OK. I see there is another user from Ukraine is answering you, but he|she is of Jewish background, so our experience may vary - for example, my mother was very artless with fish (and so am I).

We were on the lower scale of middle class, almost an inch above poverty, as I have understood much later. Father's salary was about 366 $ a month, mother's 225 $ or so, and this is according to official course, the real would show even worse numbers. Daily meal usually consisted of three courses. Breakfast was scrumbled eggs or sandwiches - depended of what our folks were lucky to buy ("dostat" (to reach) it was called). Then I had something at school. I was a picky child and school food was almost always crappy, so I had just tea with some bakery. Bakery was mostly pies stuffed with mashed potatoes, fried cabbage, meat or apple jam. I loved apple jam pies, they costed me 25 kopeykas a piece and 10 kopeikas for a glass of tea. School cooks hated picky kids like me, because they had to deliver their business-plan and we bought nothing but tea and pies. If you are interested, I can tell about school dinners particularly.

When we (me and sis) came home, we dined with what we could prepare by ourselves (since parents were at work). Usually we had some soup (prepared by mom beforehand, we had just to reheat it), or just bread, butter and tea (or bread, tea and no butter, sometimes sandwiches with sausages or ham or bacon (again, if parents were lucky enough to get it). Then we did out homework or went to training or music school, or some other hobby group, there were lot of them for symbolic price, give it to Soviet Union).

I have to say that we had a lot of jam, because our granny used to prepare it in a huge amounts in summer. Usually it was black and red currant jam, but it could be also strawberry or cherry or apricot, depended on what was especially cheap that summer. Raspberry jam was not for a common use, only for illness treatment. So, if we even had no butter or bacon or wurst to put on the bread, we always could spread jam on it.

I have to state that berries and fruits in the East of Ukraine in summertime were as cheap as you can imagine. Fruit trees are growing everywhere in cities and villages, you can just walk and pick an apricot, or plum, or cherry. Such a behavior is considered improper for adult, but kids can eat as they want from "nobody's" trees. So we did in summertime. There was a ravine near our house, wild apricots grew there, too little and sour to have them for a proper dessert, but OK for jam or compote.

When we returned home, there was a time for the proper meal of three dishes. First was soup again. Mostly borshtch, because ingredients were cheap and easy to get: cabbage, beetroot, potato and tomatoes in summer, tomato paste in other seasons. If mom was lucky to buy a hen, than it was noodle soup, or rice soup, or pea soup, or just a bouillon with some croutons. Hens were called "a blue bird of luck", and often blue they were, indeed, of over-freeze and, maybe, hunger, for they were skinny. Mom used to boil them in a big pot, preparing a meal for the family of four for several days. Broilers were hard to get, it was a Sunday or Birthday meal, and so were steaks. Mostly mom had prepared a stew from what was called "a soup kit" - bones with tiny slices of meat on it, very cheap, a ruble per kg or so. Braise them with onion until meat can be easily taken off, then trow bones away and add sliced potato. She also prepared hamburgers of minced meat with solid addition of bread mixed in it. Many cooking women do this nowadays, too. Not me: Finally I can have burgers of meat and nothing more! :) We could possibly eat sausages, again if mom was lucky to get them, or wurst, awful but edible when fried.

All this was served with trimmings: mashed or fried potatoes, rice, other mush (buckwheat mostly - this is Ukraine, after all), pasta. No one could have meat without trimming, and granny is still shocked seeing me eating meat with salad and nothing more.

We used to have salads also. In summer and early autumn it was the salad of sliced tomatoes and cucumbers, in other seasons mostly pickled tomatoes, cucumbers, marrow pumpkins, salted cabbage.

[morreth.livejournal.com]

Yeah, rye bread was always tasty, Darnitsky especially.
I was salo-hater in my childhood. Learned to eat and love it only in 1990-s.

[inescher.livejournal.com]

I didn't like salo when I was a kid too. Started to eat it in my teens :))).
Warm rye bread from the back door of the bread store (we paid to the store worked and got the hot bread) with the salt (kamennaya :) ) and fresh tomato... Mmmm! Or just warm bread with a glass of milk (kefir). It's a meal, not just snack. :)

[morreth.livejournal.com]

Cornflakes! Sweet cornflakes, 12 kopeykas a box! With Lion Cub and Turtle on it!