Complexities of abortion and related issues

[peacetraveler22]

During my school years, I was constantly indoctrinated with pro-life agendas. Abortion - one of the greatest mortal sins a woman can commit, and an overall stain on society that females have the right to legally terminate pregnancies without the consent of the "father." I once even wore a t-shirt in support of this movement and went to the annual March for Life rallies that occur each year in Washington, DC.

Then, I grew up, and realized shit happens. There are many complications and difficult decisions humans must face throughout their lifetimes, often tied to love, sex and family relationships. Any commuter in the Washington, DC area has seen this truck numerous times. It sits parked on various city streets with all kinds of extreme right-winged and religious rhetoric plastered all over it, but the owner's main platform and objective in life is to reverse Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that legalized abortions in America. The decision was rendered in 1973 - the year I was born.

To advocate this platform, the truck is decorated with images of aborted fetuses, human tissue, and photos of women plagued with guilt and regret over their decision to abort. And each time I pass this truck, as this morning, I anxiously hope the driver will be sitting in it. Because I would pull over in a heartbeat and engage this man in conversation to understand more about the foundation for his positions and beliefs. I think it would certainly be the debate of my lifetime. :) But, alas, now I simply must look at these graphic images each morning at 6 a.m. when I'm pulling into my office garage, and think about his other favorite slogans - "Jesus Wept" and "Jesus Saves."



There is no greater responsibility in life than bringing children into the world and caring for them in a manner that produces healthy, productive adults who contribute something to society. I don't know when life begins. If it's the moment of conception, three months later, six months...but I 100% support legal abortions now. You need only to work in family law, or the child/foster care systems to see the impacts of all of these unwanted babies brought into the world. And I wonder what these people who are so against abortions do to help these kids? Do they volunteer to work with abused/neglected children, adopt the unwanted babies, or apply to be foster parents to care for them? My platform - pro-immigration, and I don't simply sit and bitch about it, but do something in my legal capacity to help refugees and asylum seekers start new lives in the USA.

I'm a very tolerant person, and advocate for expression in any form, even for agendas like this to which I'm strongly opposed. However, it's a trigger point for me when male politicians, or men in general, try to dictate what a woman should do with her body. The way she should look, carry herself, and especially with issues of sexuality. I don't support any type of legislation that requires the legal consent of a father for abortion, or similarly, no male consent should be required for a woman to carry a pregnancy to full term if it's her desire. If a man is having sex, he bears the risks and burdens that come with it - this includes conception and financial support for offspring.

Recently in Switzerland, legislation was proposed that would permit "legal abortions" for men, giving them the opportunity to opt-out of parental rights and financial responsibility up to the 18th week. There was immediate outrage and rejection over the legislation by mass society. And what do you think of this idea?

If you have questions for the religious prophet and driver of this truck parked in Washington, DC, please share in the comments. I will be pleased to share your questions from the other side of the globe, if I ever get the opportunity to meet him.

Comments

[olgorius.livejournal.com]

Fetus is not a human being. All the rest is just a way to indoctrinate people and manipulate them via artificially induced guilt.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

From a legal standpoint on the topic of abortion, a fetus becomes a "human" of sorts when he or she can be viable outside the womb, based on current medical standards. This is why some States prohibit abortions in the last trimester, unless the mother's life or health are at risk. But when a fetus becomes "human" - this is a very complex question. :) Like a reader who recently asked me - "is there a purpose for existence?" How can you answer it in a few sentences? :))

[seadevil001.livejournal.com]

I think, people who is against abortion should use free market approach - try to persuade womans who consider abortion to carry baby until birth for market price for surrogate mothers. After all, most of antiabortionists are all in for free market and government non intervention into private matters. So they should put their money where their mouths is.
This said, I believe prospective father should have say in deciding on fetus future, if he carry responsibility for it.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Religious dogmas are rarely based on any type of action - only indoctrination. They like to preach about and judge all the wrongs in the world, but do little to correct them. What if the prospective father and pregnant woman don't agree? Then, who prevails? It is too complicated of an issue. The woman is the one who carries the baby inside her, and goes through the medical trauma of birth and the after effects. A man is only responsible for shooting the load inside her. Sorry to be crude, bit it's the truth. And the mere act of doing this does not make you a "father."

[no-xit.livejournal.com]

Shit happens, yes. But that shit doesn't prevent abortions from being murder, unfortunately. Women's right to do whatever they want with THEIR bodies, for example whether or not to engage in sex with a man, is unquestionable. But is the fetus actually her body, or is it another being?

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

The exact point at which a fetus becomes a "being" is debatable. So, it's your opinion that this occurs precisely at the moment of conception?

[elarbee.livejournal.com]

Oh, come on! Women so frequently engage in sex involuntarily that abstaining can't possibly be their only valid right! Not to mention, I see that you're a man, and I really agree with Shannon that men dictating to women is at least unbelievably unfair. I've born two children and I love having them, but if I didn't want to have children, going through this experience would have been brutal - mentally and physically.

[mb-b.livejournal.com]

Have you read 'Freakonomics'? They directly link Roe v. Wade to the drop in crime rate by the early 90's. Reading your post I half-expected to see a reference to that book.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I haven't read this book...I'm sorry to say, but it's quite rare when unwanted children born into neglect, abuse, or to drug addicted parents actually become productive and healthy adults. They often get trapped into the same cycle into which they were born...:( If you spend only a few months working in the juvenile or family court systems, this will become blatantly obvious. This is why I left this line of work, it is too emotionally draining and frustrating.

[moskitow.livejournal.com]

I have the same opinion: women should have a right to terminate their pregnancy.
I've read lots of nightmarish stories about the time when it was illegal and the way women were trying to get rid of pregnancy with homemade remedies......it's not pretty and it's puts women's health and life in danger.
Switzerland is a progressive country but I don't think this law could go through. They need to name it differently for starters :) Since I raised my child without any child support from her biological father I would be glad if I(or she) could have some type of a legal paper that states clearly that my child has no financial obligations in future towards her biological father. So in a way, "legal abortion" for men is not a bad thing.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

The best outcome is when the man and woman mutually agree about a child, including financial responsibilities, or lack thereof. However, this requires maturity and communication, which are qualities so many people lack in today's world. This is why it's necessary for courts to step in and dictate the rules for them, but even then, the mother often gets screwed. Just because there is an order for support does not mean the father will pay it, and Judges are so overloaded with such cases that there are rarely negative consequences for inaction. Children and mothers suffer as a result. On the other side, decent fathers who petition for custody when there's a deadbeat mom are often screwed, because there is still a strong bias in favor of mothers when it comes to custody. And this is not always in the best interests of the child.

[qi-tronic.livejournal.com]

I'm for strong families where everybody has their role.
Mentally I prefer single life but I understand it's useless.
It's like masturbation - pleasure but no result :)

Abortions (excluding cases like rape, diceases, etc.) has the same cause - lack of responsibility.
If everything is a woman's decision - men should not exist on Earth.
In reality, in nature, make and female are 2 sides of a whole.
They should decide together - to have children or not, and other questions.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

And why do you think single life is useless? About masturbatory endeavors - pleasure IS a result, and a worthy one.

[kremlin-curant.livejournal.com]

I think in the terms of abortions the US and RF (aka Russia) this time stay in agreement- no abortion after fetus is 12 weeks old. I agree also.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

In the U.S. the laws vary by State. They are not consistent nationwide. You can look here, if curious. https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/overview-abortion-laws?gclid=CNeE7ISn18wCFdFZhgodBpsCOg. I know nothing about Russian laws on this topic, or father's rights in such situations.

[juan-gandhi.livejournal.com]

It's all sad and hard to talk about.

I guess nobody is "in favor" of abortions.

But if there's no other solution. A woman has the right to control her body. It's probably more essential than the 2nd amendment rights.

I don't believe abortions will be legal forever, though. It's still a barbarism. Hope some day science will be able to save the foetus and transplant it, for instance.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I think it's more barbaric to have a child and then neglect or abuse him or her honestly. In a perfect world, there would be someone ready, willing and capable to take the child in such situations and raise it properly. But the world is far from perfect, and until we reach this state (which will be never), this option must exist. What do you mean transplant the fetus? Into the bodies of females who struggle with infertility?

[voleala.livejournal.com]

Yes, I heard about that thing (the man's right to opt-out). I think it is not a bad idea. Something similar to the women's right to abort, but much simpler and easier, although irrevocable. Some sort of equality.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I think there should be an option for the man to opt-out of all financial and parental obligations, but only if the woman agrees. Why should she bear all the costs of raising the kid, when it takes two people to create one?

[pin-gwin.livejournal.com]

The state of mind "What Have I done" may be very persistent. This propaganda multiplies it and could even lead to depression and suicide.
And to those in reference of Jesus.... Who are they to teach others? Read your own sources.
Matthew 7:1
1 Do not judge, or you will be judged. 2 For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Luke 6:41
Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?

John 8:7
When they continued to question Him, He straightened up and said to them, "Whoever is without sin among you, let him be the first to cast a stone at her."

Romans 2:1
You therefore have no excuse, you who pass judgment on another. For on whatever grounds you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

Romans 14:10
Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

Romans 14:13
Therefore let us stop judging one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I haven't picked up a Bible in decades, had enough of it during my 12 years of schooling. I doubt I could have an abortion myself, but this doesn't mean I think it should be prohibited for others. I don't put myself in positions where pregnancy can even occur, and if I'm ready to enter into a sexual relationship with a man again, the topic of babies will be discussed, because it's still possible for me to get pregnant, and no birth control is 100% effective. :)

[aavenger.livejournal.com]

... and justice for all! Yeah, I know, I know :)))

The problem is about people making simple tasks too much complicated - let's invite Mr. Shaw, quite interested in what would he say :)))

So, only 4 situations are possible (those based on medical grounds are not included, of course):
. both parties want or do not want a kid - it's all obvious for these two cases :)
. girl wants, guy does not - Swiss are quite clever, there should be an option for opt-out :)
. guy wants, girl does not - guy should have an option for opt-in, meaning girl has to complete the mission and father gets a baby, compensations are negotiable :)))

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

#3 - opt out by the dad is fine, as long as the government provides benefits to make up for the father's lack of financial contribution for the basic needs of the child, or the mother is financially capable of handling it on her own. I'm not sure about Georgia, but it's very expensive to have a child in the Western world. Why should a woman only be responsible for this, when the guy also created the baby?

#4 - No, No, No! :)) The man does not bear any of the burdens or emotional consequences of carrying a child in the womb for 9 months. He has no rights to dictate how a woman controls her body.

Of course, such issues are very complicated. I don't think the decision to have a child, or raise one, is a "simple" task. Now I'm too stuffed with chicken fajitas to make more detailed arguments. Let's add it to the long list of things to discuss at a later point. :)) And, I was greeted by bunnies in the yard just now when I entered the house. They are hopping all over our yard. Fairy kingdom after all. :))) Good night!

[moya-shweizaria.livejournal.com]

"Legal abortions" for men - I think, it is not acceptaple.
If a man do not want a kid and not ready to financial responsibility, he should use contraception.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Agree! :)

[biakishev.livejournal.com]

Well, based on the signs from the lamp post you have a very good chance to meet the driver between 6 and 7 am.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

He was not there! I arrive in the city very early in the morning for work, and have never seen him. Some day he'll be there though, and I will definitely stop to introduce myself and engage him in conversation.