Who will support the babies? - government vs. personal responsibility

[peacetraveler22]

For some people, having a child seems to be the only purpose in life, regardless of whether you can financially care for this creation, or provide a stable environment in which they can develop as a human being. I began to have an interesting discussion with a reader. He grew upset that I made a comment about a young Native American woman who kept having one baby after the other, when she did not have the financial capacity to care for them.

"Why do you feel sad about it? These kids are healthy (because their mom was young when she gave birth). They have enough food. They can play with each other. Why do you think elderly deserve welfare benefits, but children do not?"

First, the kids are not healthy because the mom was young when she gave birth. They are healthy because fellow citizens. and the government, foot the bill for their survival. We have no choice as to whether we are brought into this world, and I agree no child deserves to suffer because of negligent or poor parents. But my focus was not on the children! It was on the parents, who refuse to use any type of birth control and keep breeding like rabbits - with no stable income, future, or job.

In the reader's view, such behavior is perfectly acceptable. It's the government's responsibility to care for these children, and provide for them if the parents can't. Of course, the government does. In the U.S., and I assume in a lot of other countries. I have no idea how these public assistance programs work in Russia, or other ex-USSR countries. And I want to emphasize that I'm not against public or social benefits, as we never know when we ourselves may have to rely on them in the event we lose our job, become disabled, or face countless other hardships that can suddenly greet us in life. However, abuse of such benefits is unacceptable in my view, and rampant in my country. There is no excuse that you "can't afford" birth control, as there are numerous organizations in the U.S. that provide free contraception. If you're against condoms, birth control pills, or other protective measures for religious reasons - well, I don't know the answer to this dilemma quite honestly.

This attitude that "the government will support me", even when I act in a reckless manner, is a totally foreign mentality to me. Such people - leeches in my view. And, no, I do not believe having a child is the only way to contribute to the greater good of humanity, or future of the world. Accidents and unexpected pregnancies happen, of course. But after six or seven children, it can hardly be an "accident." I believe in personal responsibility, utilization of resources, and not sucking off the government's tit for an entire lifetime, contributing very little to society in return.

What do you think? Is it okay to keep having babies, and expect the government to pay for them? This is a completely irrational view from my perspective, on multiple levels! How do these social programs work in Russia, or the country in which you live?

Comments

[real-marsel.livejournal.com]

I do not understand why people birth children, really. Hormons or somethings else, perhaps.

[moskitow.livejournal.com]

I think it doesn't matter what I think about this topic, babies will continue to appear (unless the government decide to start doing preventive sterilisation)
I think that the only way to make it better is education. Once you educate a woman and give her tools to make a good income ..... surprise! women have less kids. Statistically.
Education is such a universal solution to so many problems :)

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

People have children for numerous reasons - because they think it's the right thing to do, by accident, or having a child is part of their life goals and dreams. And, of course, procreation is necessary for survival of the human race. :) But just giving birth, or donating sperm - this is not something to be proud of, in my view, if you're otherwise an unfit/negligent parent. Bringing a child into the world is a huge responsibility in my view, yet many people give absolutely no thought to it before having one.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I agree education is the great equalizer, but how can a woman in a country like the USA not know about birth control, condoms, etc.? Even in urban and ghetto areas, there are places where you can get free condoms, at least here in the Washington, DC region. Forced sterilization, or government control over fertility and reproduction - very scary! It's way too complicated of an issue, and requires a level of oversight and control that I doubt any modern government has the resources to regulate, monitor and control. And on what grounds will sterilization occur, who will be subjected to it, etc.?Complex topic. :))

[real-marsel.livejournal.com]

You wrote my words. :-)

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

:) Btw, I received your post card! Thanks so much! :)) I also have your book, but it's very heavy and I'm trying to find the cheapest way to mail it overseas. The novel should be coming to you sometime soon, provided there is no mix-up or long delays with the postal services in either country.

[selfmade.livejournal.com]

Child is a contribution to the society. They are society. So like it or not such people will out-rabbit-multiply you. Probably it will decrease your and their well being, but it's your problem, not their. Well, if grown up child retrospectively doesn't like that reduction of life quality she can do something about it including decision to not multiply like rabbits. It looks like American society as a whole made that decision already. Birth rate is slowly decreasing and is supported mostly by rabbit-like multiplying of some of members of society, while other members decided that they don't want to contribute entirely, simply living the best possible life off society maintained by rabbits.

Basically child is an expensive resource with very much delayed material contribution. You prefer having other members contributions now to increase your current level. They prefer having delayed contributions. If society as a whole shared your view in 40s-50s we wouldn't have baby boom that boosted economy a few decades later. Of course, there's always a balance - now vs later. I think currently we are at the need to boost birth rate a little.

[real-marsel.livejournal.com]

I am so happy for post-card!

[olgorius.livejournal.com]

Only mandatory birth control for people like that.
Decision about "to have or not to have" will be taken by special committee after careful consideration of your income, credit history, equity and net worth. :)

[c250.livejournal.com]

I went to Baltimore, there was a large billboard advertising " Child will coast $ 660 per month " When my wife got her dream ,daughter we were 40, she took everything and I was left on the street, judge says you supposed made 90K To what ? Without collage degree ? :) You need to think hundred times have you baby in America is the most unfair court

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

What do you mean most "unfair court" - in the context of child support payments? Most States, including where I am in Virginia, follow a basic formula for support payments. The monthly calculation is based on numerous factors (father's income level, number of children, health insurance costs, etc.). Of course, the mom and dad can enter into some other type of arrangement on their own, memorialize the terms in written form and submit it to the Court. The Judge will then enter it as an Order and make it part of the official record. Judges love such cases. This is what happened in the last child support case I handled. But most couples cannot do this because they can't agree, wish to fight and drag everything out...and the courts are forced to decide their fate and obligations for them. Btw, you can view the VA child support calculator here - :) http://www.vasupportcalc.com/child-support-calculators/shared-support-calculator/

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

What if people have religious objections to birth control? The government cannot force it upon them, as it violates freedom of religion. What do we do with these people? :))

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Sadly, children born into such homes often follow the same cycle because we are all products of the environment in which we grew up to some extent, right? There are always exceptions, but I think they are becoming more rare. If a child is born into a household with lazy/negligent parents, who sit on their ass all the time, live off food stamps, welfare, and other social benefits, how is the child supposed to understand the value of work, contribution to society, effort, education, etc.? So, this pokes holes in your thesis that a child is an "expensive resource with very much delayed material contribution." Not all humans grow up to provide a material, or even minor contribution to society, so why do we need so many of them in the world? P.S. - thanks for such a well-written, logical response. :) Your English is excellent!

[olgorius.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, government will find a way. Just add an extra tax. :)

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

The government is inefficient, lazy, chasing its own tail mostly, and constantly wasting resources - I don't trust them to solve this problem, or find a way to deal with such a complex issue. Though I'm an optimist, I'm also a realist. :) Abortion must remain legal, programs like Planned Parenthood that provide reproductive health and resources for the poor must remain in full force. This helps curb the problem, and it is the precise reason why I'll never support Republican candidates. They are mostly trying to abolish both.

[seadevil001.livejournal.com]

First, process is fun! Second, kids are fun (sometimes) if you teat life properly.

[seadevil001.livejournal.com]

Obviously state is interested in new taxpayers and cannon fodder. So it sponsor new kids for everyone fertile enough.

[real-marsel.livejournal.com]

The process can be without kids.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

The "process" can be fun, even when becoming pregnant isn't the objective of the action. :)) And the process can become burdensome, and lose all sense of romance, enjoyment and passion when it becomes purely mechanical, in cases of infertility or difficulties getting pregnant, where women must closely monitor cycles, and schedule sex, etc. Several of my female friends have struggled with this. Children - yes, they are fun, exhausting, annoying, frustrating, beautiful, innocent...the adjectives are endless. This is how I feel about my nephew. :))

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Exactly. We read each other's minds. :))

[inescher.livejournal.com]

"Is it okay to keep having babies, and expect the government to pay for them?"
-No. My family is my responsibility as well as my lifestyle, my health, my life environment. I totally agree when government (i.e. all of us though our taxes) temporary helps people with the problems but I'm not agree when this problems became to be a style of the life and government (again, i.e. all of us) should pay for that. As a health organization worker I see how much it would cost to pay this support but I also understand why we have to do that. This is dilemma and nobody knows how to solve it.

[kichiro-sora.livejournal.com]

I basically agree with everything you said. Breeding like rabbits is irresponsible, and unfair to children in first place. Coming from poor welfare family there's little chance they'll be successful in life...

But if goverment allows it - some people will abuse the system. Nothing we can do about it. Nobody will roll welfare back. So it's not much use to talk about it.

And even if there were no welfare - some people would stop, because right now welfare is their "salary", so the more kids the bigger salary. But some people would still breed like rabbits. For religious or other strange reasons. The kids would be literally hungry, but it would not stop them.

[kichiro-sora.livejournal.com]

Did you see Shameless? US version. It pretty much shows the way of life of welfare people. Not many of them become taxpayers. Most - just get on welfare. That's the only way they know.

[kichiro-sora.livejournal.com]

Second part is true too. But you can't estimate it by observing other kids. No matter how close you are with your nieces etc, you can't experience having a kid untill you really had one or two of your own.

But people in question here is a different matter.

[kichiro-sora.livejournal.com]

she means educating them to have a good job, not educating to use condom. But people from welfare families by the time they live home is so set on welfare style of life, it's not a trivial task to teach them otherwise.