Prisoner Rights

[peacetraveler22]

Criminal psychology is a fascinating area of study, at least to me. This week, news spread that 79 year old Charles Manson filed for a marriage certificate to marry "Star," a 25 year old woman from Illinois. She was only 16 when she first discovered Manson on the Internet and immediately became attracted to his environmental philosophy, at least that's the story she tells the press. They speak almost every day on the phone, and she's permitted to visit him on weekends. However, conjugal visits are prohibited, so technically sex is not permissible unless they find creative ways to engage in the act without security guards noticing. Entirely possible! People are always finding clever ways to engage in sex in public places or under tight scrutiny.

I started thinking recently about what rights the most evil and heinous prisoners like Manson should have. Should he be allowed to marry? Have sexual visits with his soon to be wife? Some American prisoners have access to TVs, Internet and books on occasion. The most notorious of killers receive thousands of emails from women interested in pursuing romantic relationships with them. What makes a woman attracted to such a person? I can't understand it, maybe there are some psychologists amongst my readers who can explain? As you can see, Manson's soon to be wife is not some ugly duckling. She's quite attractive and well spoken, yet drawn to a prisoner who committed some of the most horrific murders in American history. Future husband with a swastika tattooed on his forehead? Apparently it's attractive to at least one person. You can hear her explain the relationship in this interview.

I know nothing about the Russian prison system, or how inmates are treated there. What rights do you think prisoners should have? Internet, TV, books, privacy for sexual relations if they're married or have a girlfriend? I'm torn on this subject, not sure how I feel...

Comments

[pin-gwin.livejournal.com]

This is a bit misleading photo. Watching this lady live interviews may change your opinion about her appearance. Anyway, an attraction of bad guys is well known phenomenon. There is nothing rational in love, and the men, who manage to understand women, should be immediately imprisoned. It's a crime!!!

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I've seen a lot of pictures and interviews with her. I think she's attractive, but of course this is subjective. :) Not in a model type of way, but in an "Average Jane" sort of way. Plain and natural. Yes, it's a common scenario for women to be attracted to "bad boys," but serial killers takes it to another level.

[creaze.livejournal.com]

Whatever the conditions their held in, the most crucial right of a prisoner is a hope for salvation, to be released and given the chance for an ordinary life.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Even someone like Charles Manson? Yes, rehabilitation should always be the focus, esp. in juvenile situations but some criminals are beyond all hope of rehabilitation. I think it depends on the seriousness of the offence. I would never want him to be back on the streets and I support the death penalty in some cases.

[rider3099.livejournal.com]

It seems to me that such women are out of their mind

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

But there are a lot of such women (despite of men, by the way).

[pro100-petrov.livejournal.com]

The main right for them is not to be humiliated, killed and wounded,

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

What do you mean not be humiliated? The prison population usually takes care of itself, at least in America. At the bottom of the barrel are rapists and pedophiles. They are commonly killed by other inmates.

[floamaldita.livejournal.com]

I tried but still don't understand this young girl..
Is this true love? :)

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

It's her version of true love, but definitely not mine. :)

[maadmike.livejournal.com]

It is really an interesting theme. I thought myself about it not once. I think it is the duality of the human's mind produced such strange world as a prison. I think it is not right to hold in one territory the killers and people who did a crime by a coincidence. It is terrible thing to do and I am totally against it. I think, that should be prisons for people who can be given a second chance for returning to a society and the prison for people who will never see a freedom. The people which I doubt, deserve to live at all, and I think you Americans are right that don’t cancel a death penalty like EU and we Russians did.
So, for the prisoners who will return to a normal life, I think, it’s possible and good to have a relationships, when they are in the prison, in my point of view.
We in Russia have the several types of prisons as I know it, the prisons for people from all kind of police forces, for people who did not so much crime and for inveterate criminals.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

In the U.S., there are different types of prisons. Some are maximum security, which house the most violent offenders and lesser prisons where inmates have much more freedom. There is a new U.S. show focused on the latter called "Orange is the New Black." It's about a cushy prison in a wealthy area of Connecticut. Obama recently passed something called "The Clemency Project." During the 1990's, Federal prison sentencing guidelines for drug offenses where extremely harsh and strict. Judges were bound by the statutory prison terms in the laws that were passed at the height of the crack/cocaine epidemic. As a result, people who were not really involved in large drug traffic schemes, or actually selling drugs, sometimes got very long prison terms merely for being present at the scene of a crime. For instance, your friend had cocaine in the car and you didn't even know about it. But the cops pulled the car over and, as a result, the innocent and unknowing friend was forced to serve a long prison term.

Obama's Clemency Act began this year. It allows current prisoners in jail for minor drug offences to be released if the nature of their crime would be a lesser sentence under current laws/guidelines. So, it's meant to give low level offenders another chance at life. There are some restrictions in place, but I'm going to start working on one of these cases very soon. It should be an interesting experience for me. Maybe all my legal talk is confusing. :) The Clemency Project is explained in detail here, if interested: http://www.nacdl.org/clemencyproject/

[seadevil001.livejournal.com]

I think if they executed him and his merry band in due time now we would not discuss this issue. Really, what kind of purpose keeping him alive serve?

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I don't remember why he didn't receive the death penalty? Perhaps he was convicted in a State where the death penalty doesn't exist. I think there are about 20 States that have abolished it all together. But not Virginia. We are second in executions, right behind the leader Texas.

[south-of-broad.livejournal.com]

Honestly, she doesn't look all that adequate to me. There is something very troubled about her. I cannot say what exactly concerns me in her, but my intuition tells me something is really wrong with this girl. Poor parents.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

She has what my sister and I call "crazy eyes." :))

[pasha1980.livejournal.com]

You live in a humanistic, homocentric society where the emphasis is on reforming criminals rather then on punishing them, and on giving them the tools they can subsequently use to become integrated into the fabric of society. In Russia, criminals are sent to places that are very much like concentration camps. By international standards, they are subjected to torture and abuse every single day of their sentences.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I wonder if a foreigner would ever be allowed to visit or write about a Russian prison? I would love to do it.

[onkel-hans.livejournal.com]

Recently I read of a case in Israel.
The assassin of the Israeli Premier got life.
Then a couple of Israeli journalists (she - a Russian) got permit to interview the convict and make a documentary.
In the course of the interview, the woman fell in love with the felon, divorced her husband, married the inmate and got permission to beget a baby.
Now she is fighting to release the mofa for the child care as parent.

And you are saying Manson ... I am really grieving Sharon Tate.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Maybe she believed he was innocent? I think that is also the case with Manson's fiance. She has all types of conspiracy theories about the crimes.

[onkel-hans.livejournal.com]

For me, the moral paragon is my wife. But women, as you know, are paradoxical.

Occasionally, hearing the news I say that Russia should be dusted with DDT. (I am not that bloodthirsty as to suggest Napalm). My wife protests - the Russians are still humans! And I have to accept this.

On the other hand, once after a heavy rain a cricket got in our living quarters. It was so annoying. Finally I caught the beast. The wife told me to throw him away. This I refused. I relocated the cricket to the basement. In my understanding of the principles of life - a home without a cricket is not home!

So, I released the cricket in the basement. Yet, on the next night, he moved up into the kitchen and started to screech there - not that far from the bedroom! I spent a couple of hours hunting the creature using my head like a 1930s airplane locator. And now finally-finally I got him and this time threw away in the cold backyard.

When I am wrong about women, I usually say Mussolini ha sempre ragione (you know what happened to that predecessor of Putin).
Thus, now I do not think about the DDT and only hope on God's action similar to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Содом, Гоморра и маленький человек мечтающий о великом

[andrey-kaminsky.livejournal.com]

If your wonderful wife will publish a book "My Life With The Fascist", let me know. You did a great advertising for this pamphlet in this blog!)

[k-netalie.livejournal.com]

i believe when you take someone's life, you'll lose some of your rights. there can't be a common answer for all the prisoners. it depends of course on the crime itself. if to talk about such criminals as Charles manson whatever right he was given in the prison, they shouldn't allow him to be dabgerous for other people. he's done enough, i think.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Yes, each person is an individual and should be treated as such but this is very hard to do when it comes to mass populations. No government has the resources to dedicate huge numbers of workers, psychiatrists, wardens, etc. to evaluate how prisoners should be separated and even distinguished. Although this definitely happens to some extent - such as determining if someone should be placed in solitary confinement or high vs. low security prison. But I don't think there is much vetting that actually takes place beyond that.

[skvorets1989.livejournal.com]

I started thinking recently about what rights the most evil and heinous prisoners like Manson should have.

Not being tortured during his death, that's all. I don't understand it and never will why should a murderer live while his victims are dead? What if something happens and he runs away and murders somebody else? In Russia murderers and pedophiles very often get only 5-10 years of imprisonment.

Actually you don't want to know about our system of justice. It is a total mess. Absolute madness.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

No criminal justice system is perfect. They are all flawed to some extent, and it has happened in America on numerous occasions where child molesters are given light sentences, or released from their prison sentence earlier, and put back out on the streets. I believe pedophiles have one of the highest recidivist rates. They almost always commit the crime again. This is some deeply rooted sickness, and one of the greatest perversions against the most innocent people on the planet - children. But, overall, I believe the American justice system is decent. Though not perfect.

[burfoerste.livejournal.com]

Judging by the interview that girl don't seems to be smart.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

After re-watching it, I tend to agree. Perhaps I gave her to much credit in the post. :) Btw, please let me know how you like British Columbia once you arrive!

[real-marsel.livejournal.com]

She is crazy.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Love sometimes makes people crazy! :))

[rollson.livejournal.com]

I think prisoners must read russian Livejournal 24 hrs per day.
And we will win crime

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Haha...good idea! But I'm not sure which Russian bloggers we should force on them for punishment? Maybe that horror miss_tramell.

[ilfn.livejournal.com]

In firstly I saw this problem on the part of the prisoner. I'm not, not in jail (spat from prison and from scrip not promise). I sat twice in the guardhouse in the Soviet army. Не знаю, как перевести "гауптвахта". Что нашел.-))) And it was bad. Spoke with the soldiers who carried a sentence in a penal battalion. Too bad it was. And secondly now look the part of an honest citizen. I stole a car once. Then robbed the apartment. I was very angry. Why should I have to pay for their accommodation and their own taxes? Not talking about the internet and television. Yes, it is bad. But you knew that commit crimes. And receive Responsibility. All honest. Even if you accidentally knocked on the car man. Anyway, you're guilty. Not loosen and the death penalty. In the US there is the death penalty.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

So, you are a reformed criminal? I cannot imagine the death penalty in Russia. The thought of this is very scary because your justice system is not as refined as America's. Still too much corruption.

offtopic: humor

[creaze.livejournal.com]

Hey, i was wondering here....

Do Americans make fun of neighboring nations? Of themselves?




If not, why is that? Because they are just boring people or too shy? Or because they're afraid, some sorry ass fun-killer is going to find himself 'offended' and sue the hell out of them?

It really struck me when i was living in America, that almost all people at all times tried to stay on the polite side. To choose their words carefully and kinda 'control' their emotions. But when you talk with them in private they dont make the impression of having an odd sense of humor or anything.

Why is that?

Cause among all european nations its totaly ok to make fun of each other, Russia no exception. Even that: most of national humor is about mocking some neighbors features, so you won't get it unless you spend several years living in that country.

Re: offtopic: humor

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Americans prefer to make fun of and criticize their own government rather than other countries. :) You didn't notice tons of bumper stickers on cars when you were here w/all kinds of political and social messages? My Russian friend wrote a post about it once - http://macos.livejournal.com/880952.html. However, I have a lot of foreign friends living in the U.S. Some European, some Russian and of course we joke around with each other.

Btw, I disagree that it's okay to make fun of Russians. Any time I try to make a funny post about Russian culture, it is taken very badly by the Russian community, and leads to a lot of hostile comments. Even though it's clear the video/content of the post was merely humor and for fun. By way of example, look at this post where I simply say I don't like Russian food and showed a funny video of a foreigner eating vobla - http://peacetraveler22.livejournal.com/69240.html. Over 500 comments, many of which were rude. Something like "if you don't like Russian food, don't come here" or "sit in America and stuff your face with McDonald's." So, I can't agree with you that Russians are okay with others making fun of them.

[anna-sollanna.livejournal.com]

I once read an article about the reasons why Russian woman likes prisoners. There was stated that because of their (prisoners') masculinity. Because they exercise their musculs, because they look and behave much manly than men out of prison. And what these men find attractive in women out of prison is obvious...

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I'm sure they can find a muscley man that is not incarcerated. :) Personally, I don't like this body type on men. I prefer a normal, or even slightly chubby frame. Nicer to cuddle against. :)

[mb-b.livejournal.com]

“What makes a woman attracted to such a person? I can't understand it, maybe there are some psychologists amongst my readers who can explain?”

That’s a rhetorical question, just google the topic and you’ll find plenty of information. (I just found a fancy word in Wikipedia: Hybristophilia.) Anyway. Most of us here (people with Russian/Soviet background) were raised as atheists (at least nominally) and so we subscribe to Darwinism by default. (Maybe not the case for someone with nice American/Christian upbringing.) So from our viewpoint the matter is simple and has to do not so much with psychology as with ethology and reproductive strategy.

(Am I assuming too much speaking for others?)

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I was not raised an atheist, but I'm not a believer. I think all religion is poison. "Hybristophilia" - new word for me too. :)

[phd-paul-lector.livejournal.com]

They say that now the situation in prisons and labour camps became much better (and no, today a labour camp is not what it used to be in Stalin's era). Luckily, I never been imprisoned (knock on wood!) but my remote relative used to work at a labour camp as a workshop head master until recently, and he tells about improvements, including food, and certain liberalization of the general regime. Also, most prisons were reconstructed, and most prisoners have rather decent conditions

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Good to know! For low level offenders, this is good. However, I'm fine if some murderers, molesters, etc. live in horrible conditions. In my view, they deserve it.

[otmorozen myz (from livejournal.com)]

You can watch movie "the mark of cain" if you want to know more about russian prisons. Its filmed in 90s, but unfortunately it actual today too.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the recommendation!