peacetraveler22: (Default)
peacetraveler22 ([personal profile] peacetraveler22) wrote2015-09-19 10:34 pm

Do you now live a thousand times better than during Soviet times?

RU26

If time travel ever becomes possible, I would transport myself back to Moscow or the province in the 1970's or 80's to better understand the realities of life in Soviet times. Looking at old photos in books or online, I can hardly envision such a system of life where everything is so structured and predestined. This is the eternal debate amongst my older Russian friends and readers - the pros and cons of life in the USSR vs. modern day Russia. Tonight I read an article written by a man who was only nine years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. However, he claims this was long enough to form a strong enough opinion about life in the USSR to know that he never wishes to return. His observations seem a bit shallow and naive on the surface. He takes a few of the most commonly expressed strengths of the Soviet system, and explains why they are misconceptions. Please remember these are not my personal views, but the opinions of a former resident in the Soviet Union. Let's begin with education...

Myth 1: The Soviet education was the best in the world

sovok7

There's a common belief that education in the Soviet system was good, perhaps even the best in the world.  However, this was largely a result of propaganda, and it's important to ask the primary question of how a "great" education should be measured?  It's clear that scientific progress in the West was no less than in the USSR.  Moreover, if everyone was so smart in the USSR, why couldn't they make good cars and VCRs? Something is wrong here, and doesn't add up.


Myth 2: Soviet medicine was better

Obviously, the quality of medical care was worse in Soviet times.  It has always been worse when compared to decaying capitalist countries. Life expectancy in the USSR was lower than the "enemy" at all times.

Reasons for lower life expectancy are simple - lack of modern medicines and treatments. While every effort was being made to create the next warheads, citizens died without having access to advanced diagnostics or care.

Myth 3: Free housing

A common misconception about the USSR is that everyone lived for free. In fact, there was no free housing but cooperatives, which cost an average sum, payable through reasonable installments for 25 years. Everyone in the USSR had a roof over their head, but the quality of housing was horrible and inferior in quality. A
fter the collapse of the USSR, the owners of these apartments were faced with the need to privatize for big money, otherwise the housing became the property of the city. What, in general, makes housing better during Soviet times? Nothing.

sovok2

Myth 4: In the Soviet Union, there was no unemployment or homeless

The main problem here was the equalization of labor in low wages, where many people lived paycheck to paycheck, creating a low standard of living for the majority. It's better to provide economic incentives for high quality work, rather than simply handing people wages. The latter creates lazy and entitled workers. Side note from me: I dont' understand employment during Soviet times? How were people hired? They picked their own jobs, or the choice was made by the government?

Myth 5: The most powerful army in the world!

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Classic point of discussion for lovers of the USSR! Yes, the Union had a strong army, to the "defense industry" money was never spared. The Soviet forces were greatly feared abroad, but there are two important points. (1) A strong army has no effect on the lives of ordinary people, except in the negative direction (when all power goes to the creation of tanks, there remains no funds for infrastructure and other improvements); and (2) the Armies of Western countries were no less strong.

Myth 6: Products and clothes were better in the USSR

sovok9
This is complete nonsense according to the author. In Soviet times, everything was worse with clothing and consumer choice. People wore shoes for ten years, and it was the same with all other clothes which were of poor quality. Remember how everyone was so desperate for Levis and other American jeans?

In his opinion, the absolute worst part of life in the USSR was the lack of choice in everything - education, work, food, clothing. Soviet citizens couldn't leave the country or really choose the accommodations which best fit their own personality, goals or comfort.  Individuality was suffocated. The government planned human life from birth to death. In general, it completely ruined the country and strangled motivation.

The author's final words - "God forbid that we all go back. Now we live a thousand times better." Do you agree?

P.S. - is the term "совок" offensive and derogatory, or it's okay to use?




[identity profile] andrey-kaminsky.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 07:09 am (UTC)(link)
24 years passed since the Soviet Union ceased to exist. It does not matter what in the USSR was bad, what is good, in general, the Soviet Union was a disaster for the peoples living on its territory, as, indeed, any colonial empire was.
But in any case, it was the homeland, country of childhood. We all were other people, more naive, more open, more friendly, now we are secretive, greedier, fatter and smarter:)

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-09-21 04:28 pm (UTC)(link)
It seems there were plenty of round, jolly women in Soviet times also. :) It's interesting to read the comments here, where so many people have different perceptions and opinions.

(Anonymous) 2015-09-20 07:19 am (UTC)(link)
человек, который это написал совсем не представляет о чем пишет.
1 - образование может и не лучшее, но очень хорошее, так это точно. Образование было доступно всем и обязательным, уровень грамотности был значительно выше, чем сейчас, сейчас в сельской глубинке не факт, что ребенок вообще сможет ходить в школу, а СССР такое было редкостью. Образование было хорошим еще хотя бы потому, что оно давала миру в том числе и нобелевских лауреатов - было бы оно плохим, такого бы просто не случилось.
2 - медицина была лучше, хотя бы потому, что она была широко доступной и полностью бесплатной. Такой ситуации, как сейчас, когда люди по интернетам побираются, чтобы собрать миллионы на лечение рака у ребенка нельзя было и представить. В СССР такого ребенка сразу бы за счет государства увезли в то лечебное учреждение страны, в котором нужно было бы его вылечить. На счет качества - мое субъективное мнение - медицина была явно лучше, была широкая диспансеризация населения, качество медицинского образования было явно лучше. Уверен что скорее всего если бы вы хотели выбрать между врачом, который учился при СССР и врачом, который учился в 90-е вы бы выбрали врача из совка.
3 - жилье было намного доступнее, чем сейчас, это точно. Да обеспечить всех было возможно нельзя, но подавляющее большинство обеспечивали жильем, пусть это были и не хоромы царские, но жить вполне позволяло. А на счет приватизации за большие деньги - бред. В начале 2000-х мой отец приватизировал квартиру, причем бесплатно (ну может пошлину какую оплатил за работу нотариуса и пр., но это никак нельзя назвать большими деньгами). В начале 70-х мой отец будучи обычным преподавателем физкультуры и тренером получил бесплатно сначала общежитие, затем двухкомнатную квартиру. Сейчас преподаватель физвоспитания вряд ли может себе позволить квартиру.
4 - такого количества бездомных и безработных как сейчас уж точно не было. По завершении учебы государство обеспечивало работой гражданина. Да работа могла быть на другом краю страны, но она была, и пусть не за миллионы рублей, но зарплату платили, причем официально, а не так как сейчас пол страны получает серую зарплату. Бездомные - я не видел в период СССР столько бездомных, сколько из сейчас.
5 - может и не самая сильная, но хотя бы равная по силе самым боеспособным державам. Правда наличие только одного ядерного оружия может сказать, что бы были как минимум не слабее США.
6 - одежда наверняка была не самой лучшей, а вот продукты - может их не было такое разнообразие, но стандарты качества были настоящими и покупая колбасу вы всегда могли быть уверенными, что она сделана из мяса, а не из шкурок, потрошков и вкусовых добавок.
При этом я не идеализирую СССР, там хватало своих проблем, но вот по указанным авторам фактом это явное передергивание и бред ничего не понимающего в этом человека.

[identity profile] golemming.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 11:15 am (UTC)(link)
===Правда наличие только одного ядерного оружия может сказать, что бы были как минимум не слабее США.
Справедливости ради наличие ядерного оружия вообще не аргумент в ситуации, когда использование этого оружия скорее всего приведет к смерти и тебя самого. Nuclear deterrence работал, хоть и неидеально.

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[identity profile] cossache.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 07:30 am (UTC)(link)
I was born during Gorby's era, so can't say my personal opinion. But grand parents say it was not good, especially food. So its a myth that products and clothes were better in the USSR. Plus lot of things were deficit. My grandma always carried big bags with oranges, sausages and other things from Kiev and Moscow. Its not 1000 times better now (especially now), but in 100 times better for sure!

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-09-21 04:29 pm (UTC)(link)
I read somewhere that Russians collect bags! Probably this is a leftover habit from Soviet times, to carry goods.

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[identity profile] morreth.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 07:31 am (UTC)(link)
Well, I was fourteen when things came apart. It is pretty conscious age.

1. Education was free, but it was not as good as sovok-worshippers used to say. It depended on how lucky you were with your teachers. And with school at all. Many of my schoolmates never bothered to learn. They knew they will be tansferred to the next class and the next and graduated and then stuffed in professional school somehow, and then get "distributed" and then work till the pension. So why woud they want to overstrain themselves with studying? They preferred to bully those unlucky ones who studied properly.

And mind you that people with higher education were usually paid less than workers. The salary of a Soviet engineer was a running gag at a time. "They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work" and so on.

2. I was lucky to be pretty healthy kid and went to hospital only once. My verdict was: NEVER AGAIN! Nurses and doctors just hated us. They bullied cryinh kids into silence.
An example from my mother: she had the thyroid resection which left her with an ugly scar across the neck. And surgeons never told her that from now on she has to take tyroid hormones pills. They thought it's the therapist's job, and the therapist thought it is done by surgeons, so she left hospital knowing nothing about her hypothyreosis and her health state had become worsening day by day until she was told by my aunt (not by the doctor!) to go get a receipt and take hormone pills.
But that medicine servise was fot free, ha-ha-ha.

3. My father got his apartment for free from the factory he worked in. That was a 1-room (not 1-bedroom, 1 room at all!) apartment of 18 m2, and four of us lived there: dad, mom, me and sis. We shared one bed with my sis until I was 15. And my dad was underpaid all the time he worked in that factory. Can you imagine an IT-man who earns 366 $ a month? And he was never considered an OWNER of that apartment. To get himself a proper living, he had to leave his position in a construction bureau and starte to work at a building site as a common worker fir 3 years. And he was lucky to have such a possibility.

4. As it was said, it was ILLEGAL not to have work. If you had no work you were judged for "parasitism" and jailed.

5. God spared me, I was born a woman...
But, mind you, there was a time I DREAMT to enlist despite I was a girl. There were so many movies about how good our army is. But when my male relatives had known of it, they started to tell me about terrible reality.

6. FUCK WHAT? Clothes of Soviet productuon were mostly ugly and uncomfortable to wear. You should see my first bra... Sometimes I wish I did a picture of it to show to all the female USSR-fans^ THAT's what you'd had to wear, were you born in SU, stupid hens!




Edited 2015-09-20 07:31 (UTC)

[identity profile] buddhistmind.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 09:24 am (UTC)(link)
pretty much, but I have to disagree about the medical system. Doctors were paid well, were quite nice and attentive to the needs of patients usually. I'm sorry about your and your mother's bad experience. I've never heard of doctor's yelling or "bullying" the kids (!). Most people miss the good medical care of the U.S.S.R. It wasn't the best, but decent. It was decent even compared to the MODERN U.S. and Europe's systems. And one more thing: most doctors in the U.S.S.R. would choose the health care because of their longing, the wish to help people, not like in the U.S. now, where people choose medicine just to earn a lot of money , and, as a result, they usually have got straight A's, score high, know a lot etc,, but are NOT good doctors and "diagnosticians", because they don't really _connect_ to the people being treated. Health care is more than just a profession, it's a spiritual path...
Edited 2015-09-20 09:25 (UTC)

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[identity profile] fostral2.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 07:37 am (UTC)(link)
stupid people still discuss SU
But much more stupid want to resurrect it

[identity profile] theodorexxx.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 07:37 am (UTC)(link)
Please, stop trolling
You accuse "yellow" bloggers that they write posts for glory and comments but post this crap knowing it will start a holywar

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-09-21 04:33 pm (UTC)(link)
This is not trolling! I really don't understand many things about Soviet life, that's why I ask readers about it on occasion.

(Anonymous) 2015-09-20 07:45 am (UTC)(link)
Another post, where Shannon do not trolling russian people or discussing international politics.

[identity profile] little-bes.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 07:54 am (UTC)(link)
the opinions of former residents unfortunately very often boil down to the fact to prove yourself emigration it was the right decision

better or worse in this case is considered only from the point of view of consumption patterns
believe me senseless
in fourth grade I be able to cross the whole city by public transport - and parents did not worry about my safety (being confident in my adequate implementation of the rules of crossing the street)
now the idea that my daughter (same age as me then) will go unattended to the next quarter - very annoying me.
(I must say here that there is a definite trend towards improved now, but still)
what's up to these facts -
education is definitely better, and most importantly - binding and covering 100% of children
housing - Yes, the queues for apartments, fact
but received. free. privatization by the way cost mere pennies afterwards.

medicine is available to anyone. no, now is definitely the technical equipment of the above, but we are talking about the USSR? I believe in the 70s where else outside the Soviet bloc to talk about ANY free medical care is meaningless, isn't it?

and so on...

[identity profile] irinalk89.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 07:56 am (UTC)(link)
I'd say the thing with appartments is a little bit distorted. Everyone was entitle to free housing if they were registered in appartments where there wer less than 6 (not quite sure but something like that) sq. meters per person. If it turned out that there were too many people in one appartment they could apply for free housing and there were queues where people were registered for decades. Someone in the party or local administration could have obtained an appartment quicker, which made others wait longer than 20 or 30 years.
After perestroyka there were cooperatives building housing and it was theoretically possible to buy an appartment from them. However, this was not an option for a vast majority of people since it cost hundreds of times their average salaries. Theoretically they could go somewhere where they could earn more. And many moved to the North or got engaged in some kind of enterprenerial activity to earn more. But then there was a Pavlov reform and everything got much more expensive in one day and so many people lost virtually all their savings.
As for employment, every institute (what universities were called back then) had a system of distribution of graduates, where every one of them and even the most lazy and dumm one, could definitely get a job with an average salary for that position. I have never heard about people fired for their being too lazy to work at all, spending their work time outside of offices queueing for goods and food, etc. This was late Soviet Union, not Staling times.

[identity profile] saccovanzetti.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 11:49 am (UTC)(link)
Actually, co-op apartment building started in 1970-s, two of my aunts lived there. They had to pay a hefty downpayment, that is true (it was not 100x their salary, more like 20x I think - about the same as a new car). But then there were people in low-paying jobs for whom it would have been 100x...

PS I think I see your point now: the first apartments for sale after "perestroyka" were those privately owned co-ops, you are right. But even before that, houses in countryside were bought and sold privately and apartments could be bought and sold too, but it was a grey area where you would officially "exchange" a smaller apartment for a larger one and paid money under the table.
Edited 2015-09-20 11:53 (UTC)

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[identity profile] buddhistmind.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 08:25 am (UTC)(link)
Dear Shannon, do you understand, that the Soviet medicine was better than even the MODERN U.S. one? Even the modern Russian medicine is better, than what you've got in the U.S. The health-care system of the U.S. is terrible : everyone says that and I witness and maintain that. Yes, Russian doctors are not very nice and cheerful, but they will diagnose and treat you very well. And in the majority of cases almost for free (relatively). Life expectancy was lower because the U.S.S.R. was waaay poorer.

Soviet education: there were no arts, humanities and social science in the U.S.S.R., but math and science were top-notch. Take a look at the professors, researchers, lab people of the U.S. science and math departments and facilities and the staff of the IT and financial analysis companies: half of them are Russians/Russian Jewish etc. And it's also the case in Europe.

The Soviet medicine and education were 100% free.

So what I'm suggesting is that the very design of your arguments is flawed...

Also, the Soviet army in the U.S.S.R's "prime" was one of the strongest.

The food, clothes etc. were crap-ish. No (really) free housing. A lot of hidden unemployment etc.

Of course, the U.S.S.R. was THE Evil Empire and so on and on. But we gotta stay sober and sharp with regard to what they had succeeded in.
Edited 2015-09-20 08:55 (UTC)

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-09-21 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)
"Even the modern Russian medicine is better, than what you've got in the U.S." I would strongly disagree that Russian medicine and treatment is better. I've seen plenty of reports about Russian hospitals outside of Moscow and Peter, and there is absolutely nothing comparable to these horror scenes in the U.S. Yes, medicine is expensive in the U.S., but most people with professional jobs have insurance which covers most of it. So, all of the hysteria over medicine and prices in the U.S. is exaggerated. Those without insurance suffer, but under Obama care, everyone should be able to have some form of coverage now. Moreover, there are plenty of free clinics in the U.S., treating the disadvantaged.

[identity profile] j1980.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 08:46 am (UTC)(link)
1 Образование было неплохое. По крайней мере у американцев явно похуже. Видел американцев, которые услышав слово "Афины" отреагировали: "О, Афины, Италия!" Общий кругозор у советских получше. Есть ещё упор на точные науки, требуют больше, чем от американцев. Сейчас не знаю, как дело обстоит. Мне лично не очень нравилось, когда от меня требовали хорошо знать физику, например. Я на неё в последних классах откровенно забил. Также, как и на химию и алгебру. Я знал, что лично мне это не понадобится нигде и никогда.
2 Я советскую медицину знаю только с плохой стороны.
3 Пожил в общагах, больше не хочу. Чтоб получить квартиру, надо было вставать в очередь. Щас в общагах только студенты и гастарбайтеры живут.
4 Даже не знаю, хорошо это или плохо. Чтбы решить проблему безработицы, можно вернуть распределение в разумных пределах. А алкаши и в советское время были.
5 Дело в том, что не будь у нас сильной армии, был бы большой соблазн наше государство развалить или напасть на него. Гитлер тому пример. Это ведь после него доверие к западу стало уменьшаться, стали постоянно ожидать какого-то подвоха.
6 Это смотря с чем сравнивать. Когда в 90-е хлынул поток китайских товаров, советские вещи стали ценить за их добротность. Китайские кроссовки и куртки расползались через полгода, а в советских ходили годами.







[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-09-21 04:39 pm (UTC)(link)
We are not so stupid here in America. :) Yes, there are probably people who don't know where Athens is, but I don't think they are the majority. And, I'm sure it is the same in Russia. Or, the whole country is full of intelligent people? :))

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[identity profile] notfop.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 08:52 am (UTC)(link)
The main thing the education was free.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-09-21 04:39 pm (UTC)(link)
This is a huge plus in my viewpoint!

[identity profile] creaze.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 09:15 am (UTC)(link)
> How were people hired? They picked their own jobs, or the choice was made by the government?

Usually, after you graduate from either university or vocational school, you are "distributed" for a job, usually in a remote location, which you are obliged to perform for several years, like three or five. Many people stayed there after mandatory years, since they saw better opportunities then in the big cities, or just got used to the place.

In that plan economy after a further number of years of keeping to that job you could claim an appartment or a car.

As the other side of modest salaries, the education and appartment came as good as free of charge.

In addition to that, soviet economy was prone to huge production sites, which led to the so called 'mono-cities', where one company was the only employer.

All this together you could call an indirectly "government inflicted choice", but of course you could abandon your job at will and go for something else.

[identity profile] solnce-v-kaple.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 09:30 am (UTC)(link)
Моя мама очень миниатюрная, на нее трудно было найти одежду подходящего размера в магазине. Поэтому платья шила по индивидуальным выкройкам в портновском ателье. На небольшую зарплату медсестры она такое могла позволить )

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-09-21 04:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Could your mother sew? It seems women were more natural during Soviet times, with less make-up and glamour than what you see now when walking in a place like Moscow.

[identity profile] creaze.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 09:39 am (UTC)(link)
> The author's final words - "God forbid that we all go back. Now we live a thousand times better." Do you agree?

Totally disagree, of course. The author is a typical russophobe. It is very sad, that we were subjected to a higly intense russophobic propaganda between 1985 and 2000. You could notice those emotional sentences like "individuality was suphocated". Whole generation fell victim to it, me including. I was nine in 1991, like the author.

This article you mentioned reminds me on an infamous book, which i recommend as an example of anxious propaganda: it's called "Myths and reefs of life in the West", here's a link (https://pravo33.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/d18f-d0b0-d181d0b8d0b4d0b5d0bdd0bad0be-d185d0bed187d183-d0b6d0b8d182d18c-d0bdd0b0-d0b7d0b0d0bfd0b0d0b4d0b5.pdf)to the pdf version. Having spent several years in Austria, i've looked at it with interest, when it came along (and made some noise in runet, of course). I can say, that none of what that book says, is a lie. But nothing is 100% true either. Fourty percent at most. The authors, probably as a result of the streess of cultural adaptation, were taking known unpleasant facts and exaggorated them with emotion. Like all propaganda is done.

This comment's getting too big, i'll try to argue with other statments in following comments.

P.S. You know what? To show you how i feel?

Two years ago i came to the fabled United States, wondering how i'm gonna find it in real life. I was so surprised with the mood of the people on the street. Strangers says hi to you, everybody wants to be friendly, and they mean it. Nobody tries to catch you and fool you (altough everybody says to be cautious), in the park everybody is ready to help. This was so different from what's in the air across Europe (and i've been to more than one westerneuropean countries). That i said to myself: "Gosh, feels like im back to the USSR!"

[identity profile] buddhistmind.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 09:56 am (UTC)(link)
"This was so different from what's in the air across Europe"

+

But it's just about the money, I believe. The U.S. is orders of magnitude wealthier than Europe's countries.

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[identity profile] creaze.livejournal.com - 2015-09-20 10:18 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] koluchkka.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 09:52 am (UTC)(link)
Для скорости напишу по-русски.
Я могу рассказать только то, что знаю от старшего поколения.
Про образование - оно еще частично сохранилось, и оно было неплохим, особенно в области естественных наук, математики. Оно было наполнено идеологией и духом советской муштры, и вранья - это тоже правда.
Старшее поколение часто хвалит распределение - после окончания учебы тебе гарантировалось рабочее место. Зарплаты у ученых, учителей, инженеров было неплохими.
Я не знаю, откуда взялся миф про хорошие советские товары - мне кажется, очевидно даже для сторонников режима, что их не было, было невозможно достать хорошую обувь, одежду. С едой тоже было сложно.
Фото советских коммуналок тоже производят впечатление, посмотрите, если не видели.
Ну и, конечно, дух всеобъемлющей цензуры - например, моя учительница музыки рассказывала мне, какие неприятности у них были, когда они просто решили поиграть музыку в парке на музыкальных инструментах. Книжки, которых не было, и книжки с "идеологически" правильным предтсловием, вообще - идеологически "правильные" книжки об истории музыки - really terrible.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-09-21 04:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Why did so many people want American bubblegum during Soviet times? There was no choice of chewing gum during this time??

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[identity profile] morreth.livejournal.com - 2015-09-21 17:34 (UTC) - Expand

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[identity profile] koluchkka.livejournal.com - 2015-09-21 18:29 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] radonis.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 10:07 am (UTC)(link)
"the need to privatize for big money" lie.
"there was no unemployment" true, but you couldn't choose a job, it was given by an employment service, also there was a ministry of Labor.

[identity profile] a000796.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 06:41 pm (UTC)(link)
"true, but you couldn't choose a job, it was given by an employment service, also there was a ministry of Labor. "

не пишите бред

[identity profile] creaze.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 10:11 am (UTC)(link)
> It's clear that scientific progress in the West was no less than in the USSR.

To clarify that even more i suggest you visit any research facility or technical university in New Jersey, and ask the elder people about their opinion of roles played by USSR and the West in scientific progress. And while you're in, look around and notice the nationality of younger scientists and ask yourself, why the products of a mediocre education are so abundand in today's world's best science facilities.

> Moreover, if everyone was so smart in the USSR, why couldn't they make good cars and VCRs?

Because the country was challenged with war threat from a block of countries with greatly superceeding economies. Every descent engineer was pulled from car business into the defence industry. We couldn't afford to put effort into cars, when we could get nuked any moment.

> Obviously, the quality of medical care was worse in Soviet times.

Consumer comfort was atrocious. Yet, the treatment the country could provide at the time, it did provide to everyone. And there was regular clinical examination for everybody, which excluded a huge bunch of deseases in early stage. Has any western country have or had this?

> Everyone in the USSR had a roof over their head, but the quality of housing was horrible and inferior in quality.

That's just true. The quality was state of the art as of 1950-ies or -60-ies. I have seen worse appartments in the West today, and there's a lot i havent seen.

> Myth 4: In the Soviet Union, there was no unemployment or homeless

The brutal soviet state took us the freedom of becoming a living thrash and a hobo, unfolding our personalities in comsuming substances or braking the law. Well the author thinks that was a bug, i think it was a feature.

> A strong army has no effect on the lives of ordinary people, except in the negative direction

The liberal nineties showed us in all glory the positive effect of a weak army on the people.

> Armies of Western countries were no less strong.

I doubt that, but let us be glad we didn't get the chance to find out.

> In Soviet times, everything was worse with clothing and consumer choice.

That is by large true, and it's a shame.

> In his opinion, the absolute worst part of life in the USSR was the lack of choice in everything - education, work, food, clothing.

Let's say that: there was a lack of choice in the options for the author.

I could choose between a lot of jobs, none of which meant miserable salary or high risk of unemployment. I could become an engineer of something sophisticated and defensive, i could go for science and spend my days in the part of nature i like most, or travel across the country. The school fee was no limit. It is hell of a choice, specially when you're not born in an established family in Moscow or Leningrad.
Edited 2015-09-20 10:20 (UTC)

[identity profile] 1greywind.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 10:24 am (UTC)(link)
Nice collection of propaganda stereotypes. Новая газета in english.

[identity profile] qi-tronic.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 10:41 am (UTC)(link)
Have no time to read it all now but I'll give you a simple example.

For an ordinary working person it was quite simple.
Imagine that you are working in a big corporation like IBM.
It gives you everything from medical insurance to housing when you work at a certain facility, from dining to clothes in a corporate store.
It produces everything accoriding to a detailed plan.
Soviet Union was like one non-profit corporation ruled by the government.

However you could choose what education you get and where you work inside this corporation.
So the choices in life for an employee were not much different than in the US.

You could not become a businessman but you could do some small independent business like selling homegrown vegetables on a farmer's market or mining gold in cooperatives in Siberia.

The main problem In Soviet Union was poor quality of consumer goods.

[identity profile] saccovanzetti.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 12:01 pm (UTC)(link)
"Soviet Union was like one non-profit corporation ruled by the government."

+1
And it is a very important distinction from a welfare state.

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[identity profile] a000796.livejournal.com - 2015-09-20 18:46 (UTC) - Expand

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[identity profile] demonfrost.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 10:51 am (UTC)(link)
That "mythbuster" created more myths rather than destroyed.

Myth 1: The Soviet education was the best in the world.
In fact, the Soviet education was one of the best in the world if we consider FREE education for ordinary citizens. And it was 100 times better than modern education in modern Russian Federation, even paid one.

Myth 2: Soviet medicine was better
Again, it was one of best FREE medicines in the world. And 100 times better than "free" medicine in modern Russia.

Myth 3: Free housing. A common misconception about the USSR is that everyone lived for free. In fact, there was no free housing but cooperatives,

Lie! Most Soviet people did get their housing for free, if they worked good and long enough on their factories. Sometimes they had to wait for it 20-30 years, it's true. But if you are a valuable specialist, you could obtain a housing for yourself and your family in some years.
My father was just an industrial builder, he was offered to move in another town (some 1000 km from our native one) where a new factory was building and they considered my father would help there. He got a 2-rooms flat (one bedroom appartments in your classification) just in 2 or 3 years in a newly built house. 2-rooms because the number of people in family also counts (there also were me and my mother).
There were early 80s, and it was just an ordinary case.

Although formally the owner of this housing still was the State, the only flaw is that you coudn't sell it. But you could exchange with another citizen, when you could pay some and got a better flat, or you could agree on a worse flat and got paid for it. You even could make such exchange with other towns and cities. So we did when the factory was completed, we exchange that flat to a similar one in our native city and returned there.

[identity profile] gosh100.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 11:50 am (UTC)(link)
Again, it was one of best FREE medicines in the world. And 100 times better than "free" medicine in modern Russia

какой бред
технологии использовались начала века

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[identity profile] demonfrost.livejournal.com - 2015-09-21 18:08 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] demonfrost.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 10:56 am (UTC)(link)
After the collapse of the USSR, the owners of these apartments were faced with the need to privatize for big money

Bullshit, it was totally free (except some small fees for making papers)

(Anonymous) 2015-09-20 11:06 am (UTC)(link)
One should compare concrete periods of the SU. 80s were the period of crisis so hardly can be regarded as a baseline. At the same time most current speakers can recollect only this period or retell their parents' views as it's the most catchy one for the aging but still active generation (not taking the 90s).

At the moment your post looks like a set of blocks "some myth in bold and some opposite myth below". Without criteria comparison is impossible.

Что правда, то правда

[identity profile] livejournal.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 11:43 am (UTC)(link)
User [livejournal.com profile] inmigrante referenced to your post from Что правда, то правда (http://inmigrante.livejournal.com/148396.html) saying: [...] Let's begin with education... Дальше читайте http://peacetraveler22.livejournal.com/154596.html [...]

[identity profile] beloborodoff.livejournal.com 2015-09-20 11:44 am (UTC)(link)
It seems like true.

"I dont' understand employment during Soviet times? How were people hired? They picked their own jobs, or the choice was made by the government?"

People was hires like in every other country. Exept after university you should work 3 years where they say . But this was no strict rule, if you refuse to do so you just have some thouble to find work by speciality.

"After the collapse of the USSR, the owners of these apartments were faced with the need to privatize for big money, otherwise the housing became the property of the city."

This is complete lie ! Privatisation was free.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-09-21 04:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, the author of that article was only 9 years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. So, he got some facts wrong, and I doubt his impressions are fully accurate because he was simply a schoolboy at the time.

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