Do you now live a thousand times better than during Soviet times?

[peacetraveler22]

If time travel ever becomes possible, I would transport myself back to Moscow or the province in the 1970's or 80's to better understand the realities of life in Soviet times. Looking at old photos in books or online, I can hardly envision such a system of life where everything is so structured and predestined. This is the eternal debate amongst my older Russian friends and readers - the pros and cons of life in the USSR vs. modern day Russia. Tonight I read an article written by a man who was only nine years old when the Soviet Union collapsed. However, he claims this was long enough to form a strong enough opinion about life in the USSR to know that he never wishes to return. His observations seem a bit shallow and naive on the surface. He takes a few of the most commonly expressed strengths of the Soviet system, and explains why they are misconceptions. Please remember these are not my personal views, but the opinions of a former resident in the Soviet Union. Let's begin with education...

Myth 1: The Soviet education was the best in the world



There's a common belief that education in the Soviet system was good, perhaps even the best in the world.  However, this was largely a result of propaganda, and it's important to ask the primary question of how a "great" education should be measured?  It's clear that scientific progress in the West was no less than in the USSR.  Moreover, if everyone was so smart in the USSR, why couldn't they make good cars and VCRs? Something is wrong here, and doesn't add up.

Myth 2: Soviet medicine was better

Obviously, the quality of medical care was worse in Soviet times.  It has always been worse when compared to decaying capitalist countries. Life expectancy in the USSR was lower than the "enemy" at all times.

Reasons for lower life expectancy are simple - lack of modern medicines and treatments. While every effort was being made to create the next warheads, citizens died without having access to advanced diagnostics or care.

Myth 3: Free housing

A common misconception about the USSR is that everyone lived for free. In fact, there was no free housing but cooperatives, which cost an average sum, payable through reasonable installments for 25 years. Everyone in the USSR had a roof over their head, but the quality of housing was horrible and inferior in quality. After the collapse of the USSR, the owners of these apartments were faced with the need to privatize for big money, otherwise the housing became the property of the city. What, in general, makes housing better during Soviet times? Nothing.



Myth 4: In the Soviet Union, there was no unemployment or homeless

The main problem here was the equalization of labor in low wages, where many people lived paycheck to paycheck, creating a low standard of living for the majority. It's better to provide economic incentives for high quality work, rather than simply handing people wages. The latter creates lazy and entitled workers. Side note from me: I dont' understand employment during Soviet times? How were people hired? They picked their own jobs, or the choice was made by the government?

Myth 5: The most powerful army in the world!

Classic point of discussion for lovers of the USSR! Yes, the Union had a strong army, to the "defense industry" money was never spared. The Soviet forces were greatly feared abroad, but there are two important points. (1) A strong army has no effect on the lives of ordinary people, except in the negative direction (when all power goes to the creation of tanks, there remains no funds for infrastructure and other improvements); and (2) the Armies of Western countries were no less strong.

Myth 6: Products and clothes were better in the USSR


This is complete nonsense according to the author. In Soviet times, everything was worse with clothing and consumer choice. People wore shoes for ten years, and it was the same with all other clothes which were of poor quality. Remember how everyone was so desperate for Levis and other American jeans?

In his opinion, the absolute worst part of life in the USSR was the lack of choice in everything - education, work, food, clothing. Soviet citizens couldn't leave the country or really choose the accommodations which best fit their own personality, goals or comfort.  Individuality was suffocated. The government planned human life from birth to death. In general, it completely ruined the country and strangled motivation.

The author's final words - "God forbid that we all go back. Now we live a thousand times better." Do you agree?

P.S. - is the term "совок" offensive and derogatory, or it's okay to use?

Comments

[stan podolski (from livejournal.com)]

There are still trial versions in Venezuela and North Korea. Everybody welcome!

I am so sorry Cuba and Vietnam not on the list anymore

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

It's still not so easy to travel to Cuba. It's a pity, because it's not so far from me. American citizens still need to be part of some type of organized tour for educational, professional or humanitarian purposes. Independent travel remains impossible to my understanding, and the cultural exchange tours are too expensive. I'm receiving invitations to them in the mail frequently. I think it's much easier to go to Venezuela. :)

[a000796.livejournal.com]

" a system of life where everything is so structured and predestined"

who told you this nonsense? Another "man who was only nine years old when the Soviet Union collapsed"?

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

How can you argue that life was not more structured during Soviet times, esp. with regard to ordinary things like food choice, jobs, education, etc. I don't like socialist systems, where people rely on governments for everything. We have too many lazy people like this now in the U.S., simply living off of welfare, when they are perfectly capable of working.

[alexanderr.livejournal.com]

well, I lived there in 1970's and 1980's. I live in New York since 1993.
#1 education was probably ok,
but I cannot really comment on that since my own education was easily
one of the best in the world at the time, but it was not typical
#2 no
#3 ha ha no
#4 lies
#5 don't know
#6 hell no

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Then you agree with the author of the article that life is much better now? Why is your education not typical? I don't like the higher education system in the USA, where universities are now primarily businesses in search of profit, rather than educators.

[alice-lisina.livejournal.com]

"совок" - yes it is offensive for those who lives in Russia and who believes that Soviet era was better. :)

Everything that time was kinda free, but it was not - since people had very small salaries and did not have much in stores. Soviet government told what size of apartment you should get. Everything was by government's control. Socialism is bad idea and it shown by other different countries.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

How did people get jobs in Soviet times? The government told them where to work, or they had a choice?

[aborigen72.livejournal.com]

Я жил лучше )))

Тогда я был молодой, высокий и кудрявый))

Теперь старый , маленький и лысый (((

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I'm also old, but still curly! :) I have too much hair. Maybe I should donate some to you? :))

[wojzeh.livejournal.com]

Twas waste of my time

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

What was a waste of time? My post or life in Soviet times?

[genka8.livejournal.com]

" is the term "совок" offensive and derogatory, or it's okay to use? "
Yes, it is!
Generally, the life in the USSR was not structured or restricted most of the times. I could think of some cases where the difference was noticable.
First of all- international travel and generally any information or merchandise from the West. Not that it was expressly forbidden, but it was difficult to obtain. The prices for "grey imports" were astronomical. You could pay a two weeks salary for a pair of cheap jeans or even an LP of a foreign band.
Education- there were no "electives" or special programs in schools. In large cities parents could get children in a school with an advanced foreign language or math studies, and that was about it. The same was in the college- you would need to make the choice during the application process and changing it later was not trivial. It also meant that your classmates in the school or college remained the same for the duration.
You could not stay unemployed- it was a criminal offense. I'm not sure how exactly it worked if finding an acceptable position was difficult.
The real estate transactions were difficult and semi legal. As the result, the mobility was very low. Most apartments and houses remained in the same family for generations.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I think it must be quite difficult for a Soviet-minded person to adjust to life in the USA.

[aborigen72.livejournal.com]

В России любят прошлое ,
боятся будущего
и не любят настоящего .

[juan-gandhi.livejournal.com]

Regarding employment.

Yes, it was a little bit of a mystery.

Say, you graduate from a university. If you are not a Jew, you will be "distributed" to an enterprise, where, if nothing horrible happens, you could stay until retirement. It was harder for the Jews; also, it was harder for married people, because, by the law, if you are married, you are supposed to get an apartment from the enterprise - that was, of course, a total fantasy (but worked for some, in the Far North).

If you do not graduate a university, you could have go get some technical education, and be distributed as well.

If you did not go anywhere, and just dropped out of school, militia would help you find a job that really sucks. But a job.

Next stage is to find a decent job. Of course if you wanted to earn good money, you would enroll into something a little bit dangerous and uncomfortable, like oil drilling in Siberia, or a fishing boat, and return with tons of money. If not interested, you need to have friends. That's what was happening to me after I spent my obligatory 3 years at a factory (as an engineer), and then started looking. Interviewing was pretty much the same as these days in software industry; and I was interviewing people pretty much the same way I do now. Except that I was also testing their English, since, in software, you are an idiot if you do not read in English.

Again, for the Jews it was more complicated, so me and my friends, we had a strong principle: Jews come first. It does not mean I would hire anybody just because.

Then, when some economic freedom was announced, we set up a startup, and we picked the best of the best of the best (and kicked them out as easy if they were not). Later I was just hiring contractors to do a specific job, and to me it was the best solution.

See, there was an advantage in the system. A young woman could get an engineering job, and stay there while giving birth to her kids. Several months of paid leave, then a year of unpaid maternity leave, that was cool for the employees, and for the employers it was a double problem: a) replace here with someone while she's away; b) retrain her after she returns having forgotten almost everything. It was all doable; in my team the majority of the engineers were females; it just required some efforts and 0 male chauvinism, which was, and still is, the backbone of Russian society.

In all this (restricted) mobility we have to keep in mind one important factor: прописка, residence registration. You could easily move from Moscow to Siberia, but there was no way you could move from Siberia to Moscow. Almost no way. That's where all the drama was. Husbands not registering their wives in their apartments, and the like.

[a000796.livejournal.com]

"Again, for the Jews it was more complicated, so me and my friends, we had a strong principle: Jews come first. "

LOL

[savin0ff.livejournal.com]

совок - the biggest human jail in the world, and first of all mind jail

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Seems to me that many older Russians can't escape this mindset.

[f-l-o-e.livejournal.com]

Presently, faith in the Soviet Union, it is a religion. People do not want to think or remember. They want to believe.
I call it - Soviet-worship, like fire-worship.

[rider3099.livejournal.com]

I don’t know what to say Shannon. My family was not ordinary, both of my grandfathers were the members of Ukrainian government. So I had really happy childhood and everything I needed. I graduated from the State University, education was free. I always had an opportunity to choose a job. I mean I made a choice, personally. Then there was really hard time for young people when USSR was collapsed. There was no salary in a place where I worked, so I had to change my specialization completely. But after some time I earned really enough money.
BTW about #3 - housing - there was just about $20 to privatize our apartment. Is it a lot of money? )))

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

No, it is cheap! :)) Yes, I imagine it must have been a very difficult transition for the generation who shifted from the Soviet system to an entirely new way of life/government.

[amtex.livejournal.com]

After graduation a former student would have been assigned to a job by the university administration or parent ministry for that institution, where young professional would not have a choice to reject that offer and choose another position. Not only they wouldn't have a say in choosing their job itself or a company for that matter but they also couldn't choose the location of the job. This is how we have got so many Moskovites having their jobs in the middle of nowhere in Siberia or deserts of Kazakhstan, which now has almost 25% of ethnic Russian population.

[a000796.livejournal.com]

"where young professional would not have a choice to reject that offer and choose another position. "

It was ranking dependent. Best students did have choice. Others had to service for three years at a position and place defined by the state.

[justadreamer.livejournal.com]

Абсолютно согласен. В страшном сне не приснится вернуться назад в совок.

[10-4.livejournal.com]

Совок is indeed derogatory for совок, as polytical system as well as certain mindset. I use it with no remorse, dont really care about hurt feelings of совокs.

[reliccherry.livejournal.com]

Совок -not offensive , but mauvais ton

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

"mauvais ton"? What's this?

[lastochkanata.livejournal.com]

Возможно, и есть в этих текстах разумное зерно. Но вот я не понимаю, как может судить об СССР человек, которому было всего 9 лет, когда он развалился? Фактически, на советское время пришлось его счастливое детство. Чем же он недоволен? Не понимаю. Я уже неоднократно сталкивалась с тем, что "совком"  больше всего возмущаются люди, которые при нем не жили. Если спросить у более старшего поколения, то вы, скорее всего, услышали бы совсем другое мнение, с большим количеством подробностей и разумных доводов. (Кстати, мне, когда развалился союз, было четырнадцать лет. Я тоже кое-что помню:-))

П.С. Автор сетует, что не такое уж и хорошее образование было в союзе, раз у нас не делали хороших автомобилей и видеомагнитофонов:

"Moreover, if everyone was so smart in the USSR, why couldn't they make good cars and VCRs?"

Возможно, это и так, и наши магнитофоны, автомобили, скороварки, кастрюли, ложки и не были самыми лучшими))). Но не стоит забывать, например, тот факт, что именно СССР запустил первого человека в космос. Да, магнитофоны не делали. Но зато строили космические ракеты. Не все так однозначно...

[saccovanzetti.livejournal.com]

Да делали магнитофоны тоже. Просто с опозданием, лет на 10. Изобретение бытового видеомагнитофона было относительно недавним для позднего совка, когда система рухнула и пошел импорт.

[berbajs.livejournal.com]

Good day!

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Hello! :)

Лучше?

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

User don_oles referenced to your post from Лучше? (http://don-oles.livejournal.com/1667078.html) saying: [...] Вон американка задаёт вопрос: Do you now live a thousand times better than during Soviet times? [...]

[hypostratigos.livejournal.com]

>P.S. - is the term "совок" offensive and derogatory, or it's okay to use?

As has been said above, it depends on the political position of the listener. In general, by the level of offensiveness it is somewhere between 'Murrica' and 'Jewnited States' in the USA =)
P.S. ... of course, if we mean "совок" as a phenomenon, not a man. It is always an insult regarding the person.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

"Jewnited States." :)) I have never even heard this phrase!

[svetla-v.livejournal.com]

только одно плохое было при СССР - граница была практически закрыта для всех, кроме деятелей культуры, политики, спорта, поэтому не было изобилия товаров на рынке.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I think closed borders are always bad! It's always bad to prohibit free movement in a society, both for the mind and exploration. But a perfect way to control mindsets and ensure propaganda isn't challenged.

[kremlin-curant.livejournal.com]

I lived in the USSR for 33 years. Mostly agree with this guy. But actually there was really almost free housing and there was no unemployment.
As for the soviet army it's difficult to evaluate how strong it is except you are an expert or at least a foreigner whos country was invaded by this army.
People picked their jobs, not government did.
There were plenty opportunities to find the job with no or minimum special education. As for professions with the high level educations eg a doctor or a lawyer there was a law that after graduate your school you was guaranteed to get a job.
Eg while I was about to graduate my medical school ministry of health care of the USSR sent there as much job offers as amount of the students in my class (around 500).
We picked these offers starting with the best students. So I picked the Kostroma region and lived there for 4 years. You couldn't be fired for 3 years (the doctors for 4), you couldn't change the region with some exemptions and also your employer must provided you with accommodation to live. I did try to leave Kostroma because department of health care broke the law by not providing me with the place where I could live, but failed. So I moved to Sudislavl from Kostroma in the middle of my 4 years stint. Actually it was extraordinary event if somebody got fired at all. It was against the law don't work at all either.

But I'm pretty much sure the modern life in Russia is not too much better than in the USSR except is in Moscow, Peter and in couple other places. You must be know that because you visited the regions 300 miles away Moscow including my first job region Kostroma. (I either worked for 2 month in Chuhloma, did you visited it?)

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Chuhloma - no I didn't visit. But many of these towns still look like the USSR, with the hammer and sickle. This week, I will show Ivanovo, which is a bit depressive.

[a-kiddo.livejournal.com]

I was 9 in 1985, and I lived through the most painful part of Russia's transition. Obviously, there are things about life in Soviet Union that I don't know, but there are also things that I do know. It is easy to dismiss an opinion of a person who was 9 years old when USSR fell apart, however, it is important to remember that the system's structures remained the same for a while.

1. Education: I wouldn't go so far as to say it was the best in the world, but I will say it was very good. I went to a "special" school, where we were taught English from first grade on at an accelerated level. My school also had a very strong science/math program. When I graduated high school, I was absolutely fluent in English. My university experience was tough but very rewarding. Due to the fact that I am a business immigration paralegal, I have to deal with applicants having their degrees evaluated. For the most part, older Soviet 5-year diplomas get evaluated at a Master's level.

2. Soviet medicine: definitely not the best. Having free universal healthcare is great, but it doesn't mean much when the science and technology are not up to par.

3. Free housing: this was one of the biggest issues of the time (and still remains). Mikhail Bulgakov expressed it best: "Well, now,' the latter replied pensively, 'they're people like any other people...they love money, but that has always been so...Mankind loves money, whatever it's made of -leather, paper, bronze, gold. Well, they're light-minded...well, what of it...mercy sometimes knocks at their hearts...ordinary people...In general, reminiscent of the former ones...only the housing problem has corrupted them...'

4. Unemployment and homeless: as other have mentioned above, upon graduation, one would be "распределен" to an enterprise for a certain period of time. As far as I understand, it was not very difficult to find a job. I am not sure about the homeless. I don't ever remember encountering one while growing up.

5. Soviet Army: definitely not the best. Not even close.

6. Products and clothes: products, as in produce and general food items, were probably more natural, not "engineered" in a lab like so much of American food is. If you we are talking about stuff bought in stores, then it was simply not enough of it. If we are talking about stuff grown and raised by regular people, then yes, it was wonderful. But again, take into consideration the length of the summer season, so for the most of the year people ate home-made preserves (not that there's anything wrong with that!). As far as clothes, they were bad and the reason behind financial well-being of seamstresses and popularity of sewing magazines.

So, that's my 5 cents on the topics.

[saccovanzetti.livejournal.com]

Why would anyone who was 9 in 1985, bother to comment on the Soviet army strength, especially using the word "definitely" describing it, is beyond me...

[sergechel.livejournal.com]

My comments

Myth 1: The Soviet education was the best in the world
Soviet high education was really, really good in everything related to military development and productions, everything else was not so good, but not so really bad.

Myth 2: Soviet medicine was better
Not really bad, but not the best one. And it was 100% free.

Myth 3: Free housing
In fact, there was no free housing but cooperatives, which cost an average sum, payable through reasonable installments for 25 years. - that is not really correct, there was a free state housing (mostly apartments), most people got the right to live in own apartment after several years of work. It took 1-3 years if you work at the big factory or something like that in a big city, and close to never in a small poor town. It was kind of free rent, with some elements of ownership. Very small group of people with big money was able to buy a share in housing cooperatives.

After the collapse of the USSR, the owners of these apartments were faced with the need to privatize for big money, otherwise the housing became the property of the city. - privatization was free. But some people refused to privatize their poor quality apartments even for free, in hope to get a better free apartments to privatize later, so their current apartments become "social" property of the city. Lots of people has failed in such hopes.

Myth 4: In the Soviet Union, there was no unemployment or homeless
Side note from me: I dont' understand employment during Soviet times? How were people hired? They picked their own jobs, or the choice was made by the government? - people had to find any job to avoid punishment for a long time unemployment, but there was a lot of 'fake' vacancies like street cleaners or any other low level kind of work.

Myth 5: The most powerful army in the world!
Well, it has a strong army until the economy collapsed to support it, in 1980 I guess. That was the beginning of army degradation, as well as the state itself.

Myth 6: Products and clothes were better in the USSR
Yes, products and clothes was really poor, maybe not in quality, but in design and ability to find and buy it outside of big rich cities.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Thanks! In the Soviet education system, were all children required to learn a foreign language? Which one was most common?

[zhang-fei.livejournal.com]

Soviet Union had probably the best system of free public education in the world. Availability of education is extremely important, I mean, what's t point of having great colleges, if I can't get in there because of high fees? I can't pay almost half a million dollars for a course at Harvard, and why woheuld I? I'd rather go and get employed somewhere to get a basic understanding of how business works, and then I'd rather spend that money to start my own business. So, I should say, that Soviet education system was the only thing that commies have done right, and done it way better than their Western rivals.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Free education sounds wonderful to me. :) Advanced degrees in the U.S. are outrageously expensive, but if you're a foreigner there's a much greater chance of getting some type of grant or scholarship.