peacetraveler22: (Default)
peacetraveler22 ([personal profile] peacetraveler22) wrote2015-11-19 11:29 am

Where is the Russian flag on social media!?! A foreigner's perspective...

french

After the tragic attacks in Paris last week, there was an outpouring of grief on social media. Immediately profile pictures on Facebook were changed to display the French flag in a symbol of solidarity and support for Parisians. Of course, this outraged many people on RuNet. I watched closely the outpouring of yellow headlines and anger that flowed over the weekend. So many nasty and angry posts questioning why foreigners didn't display the Russian flag on social media after the Sinai plane bombing. What about Beirut? How about Turkey! Both countries also were victims of terrorist attacks in the last few weeks, though on a much smaller scale. Even more outrage when LiveJournal displayed the French flag on the homepage for several days. As a foreigner and tourist to both France and Russia many times, the reasons for the disparate public reactions are quite obvious to me.

France has consistently ranked as the most visited country by foreign tourists, with the USA in second place. I looked at the tourism figures for 2014, and again France is in first place - 83.7 million tourist arrivals last year. In the USA, there were 74.8 million. Now, let's compare these figures to tourism in Russia. In 2014, only 29.8 million tourist arrivals, a miniscule amount in comparison to the French statistics. So, you must understand that foreigners don't equate the loss of Russian life in the Sinai plane crash to be lesser than the victims of Paris. The difference is that large numbers of tourists from all over the world have visited Paris, have walked its cozy streets, and thus have vibrant memories and connections to the country. And this makes the grief much more tangible and personal. We don't grieve for the loss of a stranger in the same way as we ache when a family member or loved one dies. And to many foreigners, Russia is a stranger, a distant land upon which they have never walked nor explored. Moreover, it was not readily apparent that the plane crash over the Sinai was an act of terrorism. Your officials admitted this only a few days ago, and the Egyptians still refuse to accept it. With the Paris attacks, there was no doubt.

When Russia opens its arms and builds proper tourism infrastructure such that people from all over the world will come to visit and explore, it too will enjoy the widespread outpouring of grief and support that recently fell upon the French. I am certain of it. For me, the reaction and grief for the Metrojet and Paris victims doesn't differ. I have close friends, memories and experiences in both nations, and had actually just returned from France a week before the attacks. So it all seems very real and personal...however, to live in fear is not an option. This will never be me, and it's not in my spirit to doubt the goodness of humanity, which still strongly outweighs the horror. I am drawn to both France and Russia, though for different reasons. Each nation holds a special place in my soul and mind, and neither terrorist attack does anything to change these facts or feelings...

How about you? Were you offended by the display of the French flag all over social media and LiveJournal?



[identity profile] logofilka.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 04:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Many Russians did not mourn the plain crash. They did not even try to engage in any form of "slacktivism" to make it look better. They just cannot accept the fact that somebody can mourn their victims sincerely, that's why they are angry at people who publicly display compassion.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Exactly, I have hundreds of Russian friends on Facebook and none of them displayed the Russian flag after the plane crash.They only became offended when people reacted so strongly and emotionally after the French attacks. It's strange that some Russians would doubt that normal humans mourn the loss of the Russian victims. Of course they do.
Edited 2015-11-19 17:01 (UTC)

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Not offended

(Anonymous) 2015-11-19 04:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Just got a reminder, that for West ~100 French are much more valuable then ~200 Russians. Noted.

Re: Not offended

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 04:57 pm (UTC)(link)
In fact, I said the opposite. Did you read the post?

Re: Not offended

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Re: Not offended

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Re: Not offended

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[identity profile] graze.livejournal.com - 2015-11-20 03:59 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2015-11-19 05:03 pm (UTC)(link)
>When Russia opens its arms and builds proper tourism infrastructure..

Typical western hypocrisy. Like in G. Orwell's "Animal Farm" - "ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL
THAN OTHERS.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Where did I say one life was more valuable than another? No where. You wish to claim that you would mourn the death of a stranger in the same way as a family member you love? If so, then you are the hypocrite. Not me.

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[identity profile] a-nimaida.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:07 pm (UTC)(link)
How does this relate to tourism?
I was not offended flag on Facebook. Mark Zuckerberg is a US citizen, an ally of France.
And if the owner of the Facebook live in Israel?


I feel sorry for all French students to Kenya, Jews (in Israel every day terrorist attack), Russians, Serbs, which was bombed by the French Air Force, Americans September 11 Lebanese, of all people pity.
How could it be different?
We all live in the same planet

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, we all live on the same planet. But this does not mean we react to ALL people in the same manner. Clearly you have stronger emotional reactions when tragedies hit relatives or people close to you in comparison to strangers. This was my only point. Probably I did not express it well, sorry. I'm in a distressed state because a family member was just diagnosed with stage four lung cancer. :((

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[identity profile] sergechel.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:18 pm (UTC)(link)
all this changing avatars madness is something wrong

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I did not change to either flag - French or Russian. But many people live solely through social media now. Their identities are tied solely to the virtual world, and it's their main outlet for expression of any kind.

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[identity profile] romanklimenko.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Everybody's looking for the explanation why mourn France but not Russia, Lebanon or others. There was a post on NPR asking the same question. I was trying to explain it from racism that sits in us on genetic level, or may be a derivative of it - xenophobia.
But I think you gave a very precise explanation. We are naturally not very sensitive to others' losses unless the loss related to our friends or a family. And Paris is a part of our family

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:07 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm glad someone understood what I was trying to say in the post. Can you throw the link to the NPR article? I love France and the French. Beautiful country, with open and friendly people.

[identity profile] qi-tronic.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:26 pm (UTC)(link)
"
Were you offended by the display of the French flag all over social media and LiveJournal?
"

Yes. There were only Egyptians who did it in a right way.
They displayed three flags on the pyramid.

But anyway all these campaigns are useless.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I agree they are useless but this is just another form of expression. I did not see the variation that the Egyptians did. I don't know anyone from this country.

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[identity profile] beloborodoff.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Russians not offended by this. Becouse they think this avatar coloring is a BS.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe this is true in reality, but not in the virtual world. I saw many angry comments about the flags in LJ posts.

[identity profile] ggreminder.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I left a similar post on a forum with participants mostly from Russia. Somebody immediately called me a hypocrite in spite of the fact that I didn't describe my personal reaction but rather tried to explain why such behavior is observed.
I noted that not many people in Russia (and on that forum in particular) can even tell where the Lebanon is, and much bigger amount of people knows where the Paris is. The number of news from Lebanon and France reaching the Russian reader also cannot be compared.

People just think everybody around them is worse than they are so in their understanding if you didn't even hear about Kenya or Beirut incident but left a repost or a note about France - you have no excuse.
Also, many people admitted they have a right to gloat about what happened in France because Charlie Hebdo did the same about MetroJet plane with Russians aboard.

I'm glad that I live in Ukraine and can sincerely say I was equally shocked about *all* these events.
Edited 2015-11-19 17:36 (UTC)

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:15 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree with what you wrote. I don't understand why so many people on RuNet are upset about the Charlie Hebdo cartoon?? Who cares? If you find these satirical cartoons offensive, do not read them or buy the publication. And to gloat about the fact that the terrorist attacks were some type of justified retribution for a damn cartoon is lunacy. Completely incomprehensible to me. Do you know how many caricatures have been drawn with bullet holes, bombs, or blood coming from the Statue of Liberty? A lot. The magazine should continue to exist. It is a shining example of a free press and society. There is no legal basis under local law to shut it down. I read one comment on LJ, written by another person, that summed up the situation quite well:

"I've all understood - why Russians pay so much attention to this magazine that in France few people read and why the Russians think their cartoons reflect the opinion of the French. And just now it dawned on me - the Russians simply do not understand why this magazine is not yet closed as it certainly would be closed for a long time in Russia. Their chicken brain can't comprehend the thought that Hollande can not make one call and say "Close Charlie Ebdo." He can not, because if the magazine does not violate any laws, no he can not do anything."


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[identity profile] at-master.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 05:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Ну ты дрянь, еще раз подтверждение американского двуличия и лицемерия , очень жду кармы в ваш адрес.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:00 pm (UTC)(link)
What is hypocritical about this post? Please explain. I said I mourn the victims of Russia and France EQUALLY.

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[identity profile] theodorexxx.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:06 pm (UTC)(link)
For western media it's clear: a hundred savages in Beirut were killed, 224 barbarians died, 120 White People were killed in Paris.
I was offended that french people seemed to be more valuable for mass media.
Although I agree, bombing in the touristic city. Ah, amour ...and death. That's horrible. However exploding an aircraft with tourists isn't less horrible

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:02 pm (UTC)(link)
The U.S. press covered the Sinai plane crash non-stop after it happened. It received just as much attention, even when it was not clear that it was a terrorist attack. Exploding aircraft is no less horrible than people being shot down on the street. I do not disagree.

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[identity profile] theodorexxx.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Btw can you explain why it's so important to show flags, national colours and bring candles and flowers when a tragedy happens? Does it help victims or their relatives? Such a lemming reaction.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Because flags are strong symbols in a lot of nations, including most European countries and the USA. They are a symbol of unity for the nation as a whole. It seems that this is a difficult concept for some Russians to understand, perhaps because there is not a tradition of displaying the flag in personal homes or public places, with the exception of government buildings. Plus, the flag of the Russian Federation is relatively new. The other gestures are just a symbol of support and solidarity and also a big "fuck you" to the terrorists. A reminder that people will not live in fear or remain locked in their homes, that they will carry on with their lives...

[identity profile] al-lex-ey.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I find it really disgusting. People are bargaining for the conditions of just being humans. Not "Europeans", "Russians", "Americans".... Just humans.

OMG... what I am talking about?

[identity profile] theodorexxx.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh c'mon if African terrorists murder a dozen of Africans many people will say "ok there are still a lot of apes"

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[identity profile] kkkostya.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Nobody colorize own facebook page if somewhere in Nigeria, for example, terrorists kills 200 civil persons. The same for russia.

[identity profile] graze.livejournal.com 2015-11-20 04:02 am (UTC)(link)
3rd world countries don't get as much media coverage, i thought everyone knows about this

[identity profile] cybermania.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not offended by this action with french flag. And thank you, Shannon, for your opinion. It was interesting to read about it.
What I really dislike is pics from Sharlie Hebdo ! This french humour is very disappointing for me. # Je ne suis pa Sharlie Hebdo

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
You're welcome! Yes, the cartoon from the Sinai crash was offensive and distasteful, the same as most others published in Charlie Hebdo. But such political satire should exist in a free press, even if it is offensive to the vast majority. It's my understanding that this magazine is not widely read in France. It is only well-known because of the terrorist attacks last year and the amount of media attention given to it. In the U.S., we don't really discuss this magazine in news coverage.

[identity profile] mybmd.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Why no Russian flag?
It's no secret really. Russia is not generally loved in the world. Or respected for that matter.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, it is not well loved in the world, and this is their own fault. As I wrote in the post, if the country was more comfortable and accessible for foreign tourists, perhaps it would be more loved. People would go there, have an opportunity to meet and speak with ordinary Russians, see the landscapes and history, etc. But this has not been the case, and probably never will be.

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[identity profile] lion-lexx.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 06:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually, as Russian I don’t worry about “how many flags” people put on to express their sorrow about the tragedy…

I just know one thing:
if you do not express grief about innocent people killed at a time when it is proper to express it (especially when killed ones are from your own country) – and do that at once as the tragedy happens in a “special” country – you are a big big lier… and your grief in fact worth nothing there…
.
Edited 2015-11-19 18:50 (UTC)

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe it's just a cultural difference? Many Russians are hesitant to openly express emotions in public, and social media is a public forum. It was strange to me that so few of my Russian friends on Facebook even mentioned the plane crash after it happened. It's a real tragedy and horror for Russians and the nation as a whole.

[identity profile] Макс (from livejournal.com) 2015-11-19 06:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Let's be honest. I can't mourn the people who were killed in Nigeria, because I'm Russian and they're just wild niggers. The same thing with you. You can't mourn russian victims because you consider us barbarians, some kind of white niggers. This is common ideology of western people. For instance you can kill millions of Indians and you won't be sorry of them. or you can drop bombs on Japanese civilians and say - it's OK. Because they all are not white people like you are. But don't worry it's not so bad. Russian are the same. Actually all people in all around the world the same. Many of them even more worse - you know, in some countries people are celebrating those terrorist acts.

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:21 pm (UTC)(link)
No, I don't consider Russians to be barbarians. And I hate this word "nigger". Please do not use it here. It's a very offensive word in English.

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[identity profile] Анатолий Васильев (from livejournal.com) 2015-11-19 06:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Where is the Nigerian flag?
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/18/africa/nigeria-blasts/

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Where is the Israeli flag? Where is the Turkish flag? You are free to display whatever flag you wish. Go ahead, no one is stopping you.

[identity profile] yacc11.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Very specific point of view - the less tourism the less regret...

No tourism in Rwanda - nobody care about Rwanda :(

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I didn't say that people don't care. They simply relate more personally with the other tragedies. The West's inaction in the Rwandan genocide is shameful. :( This has always been my position.

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[identity profile] oblomius.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:37 pm (UTC)(link)
The Russians gave the missile that downed Boeing MN17. And now they want to sorrow for themselves .......

[identity profile] peacetraveler22.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, with this comment I know immediately that you are Ukrainian. :))

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[identity profile] amtex.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:40 pm (UTC)(link)
The fact that there are so much more people are visiting USA and France than Russia is not just about infrastructure, the way those countries are appreciated means a lot. Russia is bad guy in the company of world powers. It has a bad image and that is for a reason. Much less people respect Russia and again there is obvious reason for that as well. So Russians should think about it before blaming others as they used to always to do before making statements.

[identity profile] dkfl.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Russians do no care much about own lives so they do get "offended" when other nations do.

[identity profile] elena-88888.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 07:56 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not offended at all and frankly speaking nobody prevented them to use Russian flag in their blogs after the plane crash...
But none of them even thought about it and now they try to make other people to feel them sorry for condolences they express towards France...

[identity profile] qi-tronic.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't associate myself with the current flag.
For me it is a symbol of decline.
(it is ok when foreigners display it because they don't tell the difference anyway)

I associate myself with red stars on the wings of our warplanes.

youtu. be/igzjX1IKULw

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[identity profile] ruslan-andreev.livejournal.com 2015-11-19 08:04 pm (UTC)(link)
agree

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