Turks vs. Russians - what is going on?!?

[peacetraveler22]

Damn, what wildness in the world now! I awoke to news of the military incident with the Russian jet. Now, a news flash on RT that the pilots were shot dead in the air while trying to parachute. Who should we believe? Russia's version of the incident varies wildly from that of the Turks and the U.S., who claim 10 warnings were given before the jet was taken down. Now, there will undoubtedly be bans on yet another prime tourist destination for Russians. It is reported that there are already demands to evacuate tourists from Turkey and cancel the visa-free regime until Turkish officials issue an apology. Who and what should we believe? What is going on?? Nothing is clear, just like this blurry photo, where I photobombed a shot with a random Russian man in some remote town last winter. I don't even remember the name of the city, but when I look at this photo, I always smile. And we can all use some laughter and a brief moment of humor on this day.

I don't even know what to say, or how to analyze this situation, because I'm no expert in foreign or military affairs. How will Putin and NATO react? Who do you believe? Today the French flags are hanging in Washington, DC because Francois Hollande is visiting Obama. Now is a rare chance for you to express your opinions about the political and military situation in this blog. I know you are all experts! :) I will read all your comments, but don't have time to answer everyone...

Comments

[e-d-w.livejournal.com]

Türkiye bu İslam Devleti. (ISIS). ?

[xyeelo.livejournal.com]

ЭрДОГанусу и всем туркам хуй в сраку! Отныне и навсегда! Пизда туркам-строителям в России теперь, это первый шаг! Остальные потом

[onkel-hans.livejournal.com]

Putin's provocations should be stopped.

This has been one of the many probing penetrations into the NATO airspace.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Yes, I remember numerous reports, esp. over the summer. This morning, I was listening to some military analysts and ex-CIA agents on CNN. They said the Turks over-reacted and made a HUGE mistake by shooting this jet down. Instability will not grow much stronger. Well, it will be quite interesting to see how things develop.

[megawiz.livejournal.com]

Kremlin is trying to foment war because it is the only way to cancel debt

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

To cancel debt, or restore its power and position in the world of geopolitics?

[mb-b.livejournal.com]

It must have been the same SU warplane equipped with a top-secret RF jammer that put God's fear into the sailors of USS 'Donald Cook' in the Black Sea last year. The reports in Russian social networks had it on good authority that several US servicemen quit on the spot then.

[moebiuscat.livejournal.com]

Yes, the jammer apparently works only against sailors, because ground radar was able to track it, then F16 radar was able to get a lock on it, then rocket has acquired the target, locked on it and destroyed it.

[Макс (from livejournal.com)]

turkey is trying to help to terrorists which are hiding along turkey's border. russia is bombing them. But turkey spent a lot of efforts to grow those terrorists and don't want to lose them.

[cossache.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, be happy ;) read news less.
They shot down it for destroying turkish oil trade with "Daesh". When you lose money you get mad. Russia will react, but not furious bcs of bosphorus strait.

[mat-uc.livejournal.com]

Turkish have a lot of channel to ISIL.
They buy ISIL's oil and transfer a lot of weapons to ISIL.
Turkish are not interest in the end of ISIL. This is a business of turkish prime-minister.

Som next time it will be not Istambul. It will be Constantinopol, or Tsar-grad.

[save-your-link.livejournal.com]

А я этого ожидала. Поговаривают даже, что когда туристов эвакуировали из Египта, была договоренность с Турцией, что их поместят туда, причем ВСЕХ, и турки обиделись, когда мы часть поместили в Иран, а часть - в Израиль. Вот и долбанули. Но вообще, дебилы, потому что мы сейчас вообще Турцию без наших туристов оставим, вот тогда у них начнется писец, потому что она жила на русских и на немцах, и на одних немцах не вытянет.

[scorp-takoi.livejournal.com]

Кого в Иран поместили? Туристов???

[modest-so-zvezd.livejournal.com]

Erdogan - fucking asshole!

[alex winter (from livejournal.com)]

Это слишком резкий шаг со стороны Турции. На них ведь не нападали. Тут в любом случае, нарушал пилот или не нарушал, он уже погиб, и это из-за Турции.

[procurator0.livejournal.com]

shannon please tell us that you are on the left in this pic

[sv0812.livejournal.com]

Who and what should we believe?

фактам
самолет упал на территории Сирии - раз
самолет не угрожал Турции - два
было 10 предупреждений? ОК, где запись предупреждений? запись в студию

How will Putin and NATO react?

НАТО уже открестилось.
Путин прервет эконмические связи, снимет скидки на газ, приостановит переговоры по Турецкому потоку и АЭС, закроет авиасообщение, турки потеряют российских туристов

На границе с Сирией будет установлено слежение и турецкие самолеты, залетевшие на территорию Сирии даже на 5-10 минут будут сбиваться.
Не исключены переговоры с Арменией - армяне с радостью позволят сделать то же самое на их границе

[qi-tronic.livejournal.com]

Константинополь и средиземноморское побережье - грекам.
Южное побережье Черного моря - армянам.

[moebiuscat.livejournal.com]

Russian ministry of defense consistently and blatantly lies all the time. The funniest recent thing was that because of Russian air support in recent 3 weeks syrian army "освободила более 50 крупных населенных пунктов, около 350 кв. км территории" - meaning 50 major population centers on 350 square kilometers of land. That's about 96 square miles! A single major city won't fit in there - Washington metropolitan area is a whopping 5,564 square miles. Even 50 tiny villages won't ever fit into this area. So they lie all the time and nothing they say can be believed.

On the other hand Turks are not famous for being truthful either.

The Russian military maps that are shown on ministry of defense briefing are stunningly incorrect, there has been an Israeli analysis on that recently: the whole sections of Israel and nearby territories have borders and demarcation lines at the wrong places, towns missing or incorrectly called etc.

Occam's razor principle tells us that NATO is correct: Russians probably flown into Turkish airspace, either on purpose (testing NATO air defense radars etc. - Russians do it for decades) or because of poor navigation, maps and avionics. They did it many times before - Turkey repeatedly warned Russians about that, they told then they will shut Russian planes down if it keeps happening. They did shot down Russian drone before.

Turkey has no reason to escalate and shoot down Russian plane that haven't flown into their airspace. And the fact that it actually fell into Syria makes perfect sense: any single pilot reaction when being attacked like this would be immediately turning back under maximum thrust. And Turkish air force once given command to shoot it down will do it, even if slightly over Syrian border by that time. Add to that time needed for the missile to intercept - and we're talking about tens of seconds - a lot of distance at those speeds. If it would fall within Turkey it would mean it went very deep, which would make no sense.

Update:



Here's the radar map. No wonder it fell into Syria, it clearly shows how it entered Turkey and where it was intercepted.

[lion-lexx.livejournal.com]

Watch RT. They report as things develop.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I follow their feed on Facebook, but rarely believe their content. They are government-controlled media and biased.

[grimbik.livejournal.com]

There will be an answer but it would probably be assymetrical. The tourism in Turkey will suffer for sure.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Return to the Iron Curtain. :(

[moebiuscat.livejournal.com]

One other thing you should remember: there are "Turkmen" - ethnic tuskish people living in bordering areas of Syria, they have an armed brigades that are loosely allied with kurds and fight against Asad and ISIS. And Russians have been targeting them. So naturally Turks strongly oppose Russian effort, and when provoked would drive the message home.

[pin-gwin.livejournal.com]

Bad development. Turks just revealed who they are really supporting in this conflict and this is not even NATO or US or Russia with Iran. Turkey was a safe heaven for terrorists during Chechen war, they are buyers of ISIS oil and they provide munition supply corridor. Now it is all rising to the state level, it is all consistent.
There is a saying in Russia - Ворон ворону глаз не выкюет. . == Dog does not eat dog.. (dogs do though...)

Russia is sharing mission info with US, they may not share the information with Turks. As a result, Turks acted as executors of what Senator Lindsey Graham wants : "I would literally shoot [Putin's] planes down if he attacked the people we trained because we have to do that,"
Bad puppet show.

[a000796.livejournal.com]

Do you remember the day US bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade? Nothing will happen

[xyeelo.livejournal.com]

ЭрДОГанусу и всем туркам хуй в сраку! Отныне и навсегда! Пизда туркам-строителям в России теперь, это первый шаг! Остальные потом

[1kompozitor.livejournal.com]

Ситуация очень сложная складывается. Идёт страшная война в которой прямо или косвенно участвуют огромное количество стран.
Тут, на русском языке, максимально объективно (по моему мнению) всё описано http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2489299.html

П.С. Интересно, почему у террористов американское оружие?

[(Anonymous)]

Shannon will not reply you. All her comments show that she is totally brainwashed by USA state propaganda.

[e-d-w.livejournal.com]

Wikileaks:


(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/ani_al/20103951/1449576/1449576_original.jpg)

[ultimaguardian.livejournal.com]

american ears obsereved in this provokation.

ISIS ALquead this is all creatures of satan usa cia with antichrist president.

gooogling McCain with IGIL leaders photos...

how they live without good and evil beyond morale? Make cannibal amazing and crocodile tears...

[seli-s.livejournal.com]

I am very surprised about the good video (Su- shooting down). "Nice" movie. I am really sure, the regiseur knew a lot about the good position to film this stuff.

[oblomius.livejournal.com]

Turkish Air Force shot down trespassers. This little incident. Why pay attention to it))

[theodorexxx.livejournal.com]

Russian shall cancel all economical and culture contacts with Turkey and prohibit turks from entering Russia
And i feel pity for those guyz who shot Russian pilots whern they landed . I want their houses to be vanished from the earth and all of them to be killed . No mercy
Actually Russian aircraft indeed entered Turkish airspace, but for 15 seconds only . So , technically, they had rights to shot down our jet . But it's clear that if they were out ally they wouldn't do it .

[mityaitch.livejournal.com]

Its all clear. Just google "golan heights", "genie energy" - dont forget to look on a list board of directors

http://www.worldoil.com/news/2015/10/09/genie-energy-confirms-significant-find-in-golan-heights