Confused, Naive American - Explain Chechen Wedding Scandal!

[peacetraveler22]

We all recognize that there are eccentric and deranged people in all parts of the globe, engaged in questionable behavior which we'll never understand or condone. I once thought of visiting Grozny, so perhaps some of you would even place me in one, or both, of these categories. Remember a few years ago, I wrote this post, asking readers whether it's safe for an American woman to travel to Chechnya? Some of my friends in the Russian blogosphere have been there, and even personally met Kadyrov and told me it was safe. All of them - MEN. You can call me a naive or misinformed American, but I can't understand yesterday's events.

I read the scandalous news that Kadyrov granted special permission for an old Police Chief to marry a 17 year old bride! I will not place a photo of the sad, distraught young woman in my blog to further sensationalize her image. On her wedding day, her eyes completely devoid of joy, as if going to a funeral or gas chamber. You've already seen her expressions, her white dress, and the bejeweled head covering, all draped around the delicate frame of a young woman who likely had no say in the events of that day, or in picking her groom. What a sad existence, I'm sorry I can't imagine it, or respect any region where such actions are considered acceptable, and personally authorized by the leader!! I read a lot of stories and comments about this topic today, and I'm particularly disgusted by the post written by Ilya Varlamov, LJ's top Russian blogger, where he can't understand all the fuss or controversy over the wedding.  How can a modern, intelligent man like him not question this event, particularly when he has a young daughter of his own?

Here in the U.S., we have various religious sects engaged in polygamy, many marrying very young brides. The distinction is that our leaders don't advocate or approve of such behavior, nor does most of American society. On some other news sites, I read comments by a few Chechen females stating that the bride's facial expression was normal, that Muslim women don't show overt expression, even during a wedding. According to them, such action would be considered immodest in strict Muslim families.

What do you think of this scandal? Please help me understand "real" Chechen culture and mentality better, not what well-known bloggers show on their hand held tours, organized by Chechen officials. Yes, I know about the Chechen wars and that it's a Muslim region in the North Caucasus, yet it's still part of Russia. I'm especially interested to hear from any female readers I might have living in this area. Help me restore my faith in this region..

Comments

[aleksi udovichenko (from livejournal.com)]

Chechens live as all lived a thousand years ago. The Soviet Union could make them modern humans, and did. Mane of Chechens became scientists, artists, engineers in Soviet time. This was done due to the communist ideology - ideology of progress. Then communism fell ("thanks" to Gorbachev and his Western friends for that!). In capitalist Russia we had a choice: either to fight with the Chechens because they behave like savages, or to pay them for behaving like savages only in their region. Russia became to fight at first, but lost more than one hundred thousand people - Chechens and Russians. And Russia has decided that it is easier to pay off them money. If Communists ever return to power in Russia, they again made the Chechens civilized people.

Capitalist society cannot solve cultural problems.

8)

[andrey-kaminsky.livejournal.com]

That communist is bad communist that didn't read the Communist Manifesto. Capitalism perfectly solves cultural problems by revolutionary changes in culture and the generation of a new culture. The capitalism can't resolve social contradictions.

Re: 8)

[aleksi udovichenko (from livejournal.com)]

Андрей, я не по книжкам пишу, я пишу, глядя на жизнь. А Вы читайте эти книжки, если хотите.

Re:

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

I can't understand how Kadyrov and Putin are linked together with regard to laws and regulations? I know Chechnya is governed by Kadyrov, and it has its own laws, but what if such laws contradict the laws of the Russian Federation? No problem? For instance, in the U.S., sometimes Federal and State law are inconsistent, but if challenged, Federal law always trumps State law. I'm asking the question only from a legal and law enforcement perspective. Putin just lets Kadyrov run wild, because he doesn't want to escalate tensions in the region? Please provide me with a lesson for the day. :))

[qi-tronic.livejournal.com]

Chechnya is an autonomous republic within Russia.
Federal law should always prevail over regional in Russia.
But some topics are just left for regions to decide.

en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia

[buddhistmind.livejournal.com]

basically, yes, that's the case. Formally the federal law is above everything, though in actual fact Chechens are just mountain barbarians who live and do whatever they want (in Chechnya) under they chieftain Kadyrov.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

But polygamy is illegal in both Russia and Chechnya, and this man is reportedly already married.

[buddhistmind.livejournal.com]

they say he divorced specially for this marriage. And I agree with gi_tronic - 17 years old is not "underage" in American sense. Not even close. In Russia the age of consent is 16, a marriage could be effected in the age of 14 y.o. etc. So it's totally different.

And I agree that the main thing here is consensual or not. And it's not about love, affection or smth. - just she has given the consent or not. She might have given it for a better life of hers and her clan.

As an Indologist, I have gotten so used to Indian arranged marriages (which are hundreds of millions in number) , that this case barely makes me sad or smth. Indian and Arabic atrocities are much more dreadful and dangerous for our world and civilization, IMO.

Re:

[andrey-kaminsky.livejournal.com]

Let's not think about sad things. Everything happened is a great idea for a posh porn. I think there is a great opportunity to capitalize on the script.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Recent U.S. policy has proven your statement that democracy and capitalism can NEVER work in certain countries. We can always hope these barbaric practices change, at least I do. :) But, based on comments here, many seem willing to just say "okay" or simply ignore this situation because it's custom or tradition. They don't seem bothered by it all, but for me it's really quite sad. It seriously impacts my emotions to read about such tragic fates of females around the globe. :(( Not only in Chechnya, but other regions of the world.

[e-g-o-r-i-u-s.livejournal.com]

Shannon, actually no matter how I personally dislike or even hate some traits of other cultures, I would rather say "okay" or ignore them, unless they affect me somehow. In Russia, we are so close to Caucaisan region, that we know their habits pretty well, and many of them really seem as something "okay", even forced marriage. We can't measure other cultures through prism of our own - they're just different, we knew it since childhood, and let them live how they are living. That's why probably many people here say "okay". However, the thing that it's really hard to reconcile ourselves to the fact that Chechnya informally falls out of the federal judicial field and becomes a very special subject with unclear but seemingly a very broad mandate of its leader. Federal law enforcement agencies hardly have sovereignty over this territory. That is what bothers me more than destiny of women in their society - namely, overall deficite of legality in this region and omnipotence of the leading politician who by some strange reason becomes more and more powerful even in scale of the whole Russia.

[peacetraveler22.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the explanation, I still don't have a clear understanding of the intersection between laws of the Russian Federation and Chechnya, or how Putin and Kadyrov are intertwined when it comes to policy but your comment provided more insight into the issue. I don't really have the personality to say that some things are simply "okay," just because they are part of a different culture, particularly when I see them as a violation of female and human rights. Forced marriage and female genital mutilation are the two main issues to which I'm opposed, no matter which religion or cultural traditions they are founded upon. So, what can I do? Try to effect change for the women impacted by representing them free in legal proceedings in the USA for asylum. It's just a small way for me to personally fight against and impact these atrocities, even if I only help a few women in my lifetime.

[e-g-o-r-i-u-s.livejournal.com]

As for understanding of the intersection between laws of the Russian Federation and Chechnya or separation of powers between Putin and Kadyrov – I would say that there is no clear picture because these relations are constantly in dynamic. Formally speaking, laws of Chechen Republic are fully subordinate to the federal laws, no deviation is permitted. However, it seems that tacitly there is a kind of contract between Putin and Kadyrov, which permits the latter to do more than any other head of a region might do and makes Kadyrov immune to any accusation or prosecution. For example, assassination of Nemtsov showed that there is no possibility for the federal law enforcement agencies to detain a key suspect in Chechnya, unless Kadyrov gives his permission to conduct investigative actions on his territory, and there is no possibility to interrogate Kadyrov himself or some of his trusted people. I would compare this situation with what often happens in ghettos and favelas: they lead such an autonomous life that police dare not enter them sometimes. There is no open and clear explanation of how Putin and Kadyrov are intertwined when it comes to policy, there are just facts and acts which have no legal substantiation and receive no explanation from the federal government. No wonder you cannot catch it – you know, it’s a matter if an intuition which builds supposed schemes on the base of those empirical facts.

As for women’s rights… Shannon, here I’d say two things. First, I personally find forced marriage and female genital mutilation absolutely disgusting and barbaric. At the same time, I have no hope that we can change it somehow within those cultures. The more we force them, the more they will resist. That’s why I say that it is better not to touch them – only worse can it become. And second, you are absolutely right when you appeal to legal procedures as a way for you to slightly diminish the volume of injustice in the world. The key here is possibility of legality, objectivity of court examination. That gets me back again to this question of legality on an individual territory: if a woman could obtain legal support and defence, if violators risked their freedom, then it would be much easier for a woman to say “no”. But in Chechnya there are no independent court and no legal counterbalance to their very specific traditions, which are overflowing the banks.

[svat-vladimir.livejournal.com]

Господа, прошу простить за то, что вмешался в ваш диалог.
Какими-бы неправильными не казались нам традиции других народов, мы не можем вот просто так высокомерно относится к ним и осуждать.Тем более, мы хотим, чтобы и к нашим традициям относились с пониманием.О крайностях мы здесь не говорим.
В этой связи мне вспоминается фильм King Kong(1976). Там исследователь Jack Prescott говорит о том, что " избавление" островитян от мартышки на самом деле не такое уж и большое благо для них. Они избавились от чудовища, которому каждый год приносили в жертву самую красивую девушку племени, но вместе с тем потеряли своего бога, своё чудо, свой миф. Альфа и Омега.Основание мира для них, если хотите. Что их ждёт впереди ? Приобщение к самым доступным "благам" цивилизации - алкоголю, табаку,наркотикам...
Есть над чем подумать , не правда ли?